Stubborn cutlass bearing |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3587 |
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It does not matter where the shaft is in the log, the logs were not that accurate on install at the factory.
It does matter where the shaft runs in your cutlass bearing, as long as it does not drag or touch the log it is OK, It has to be straight as it spins in the cutlass. The term happy place has been used for that spot where the shaft spins with the least amount of drag. When in that spot you want to align your engine to match it. In this spot the cutlass will have the least amount of drag and last the longest. Maybe your boat will pick up a few RPM! If the Cutlass is off center making your prop shaft not point at your transmission you adjust the cutlass. You have yours now tweaked to be within 1/16? That is pretty close, should be easy to align your engine to match now. It looked like you were at least a 1/2" off yesterday. My Engine mounts had not been moved in 19 years and did not wish to adjust easy. After loosening the mounts I hit them with some penetrating oil and found I could tap on them with a ball pen hammer and things moved in as needed. I seem to remember using a crowbar on one to move the mount out as needed. The up and down movements are easy with a wrench it is the in and out movements on the mounts that took some English to make them happen. You may need to open the mount a little after loosening the lock bolt. It pinches the in and out shaft to hold it tight. Just loosening the bolt does not necessarily free up the slider. The Coupler adjustment can be played with to get close to zero. Mine ended up at .0015 and I quit trying to get closer. I think .003 is acceptable. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Grant,
Yes, you are good to go onto aligning the engine to the shaft As Mark mentioned, centering in the log doesn't have to be perfect. If up and down centering is needed, then the strut would need shimming as previously mentioned.
Great job on tweaking the strut! |
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gcam4
Groupie Joined: March-21-2017 Location: Charlotte, NC Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Mark, I hope my mounts move well. I know they move well up/ down but as you alluded to it's the side-side that is difficult for a 24 year old boat! I moved the strut about 1/8-3/16 to port so I feel pretty good. It's as good side-side as I feel I can get it! I dont think it was off 1/2" but at least 1/4". I will post pictures soon of the tweaking process and of a few other items. As mentioned before I'll be happy to loan the bearing puller/installer out. I'll likely post pictures of that project as well. If all goes well, I'll have it in the water this weekend.
Thanks Pete! What is everyone doing for safety collars for the ARE shaft? |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3587 |
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My boat is still in wrap for winter but If I remember it had a round safety collar held with a set screw. I think I put it back on the ARE shaft. I will be opening it up soon to check the brakes and charge the battery, I will have to take a look at the shaft. We have rain for the next week so it will wait a bit.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21107 |
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Climax Metal 2C-100-S T303 Stainless Steel Two-Piece Clamping Collar, 1" Bore Size, 1-3/4" OD, With 1/4-28 x 5/8 Set Screw https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VXU0UK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_i1e5CbGCC3BET
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3587 |
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Nice tip Tim on the Coupler. That should work great.
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gcam4
Groupie Joined: March-21-2017 Location: Charlotte, NC Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Thanks to everyone's help on the forum. I got the alignment within 0.002" and under, it did take a little bit to get there but I did manage. Did it in the front yard at the house and boy It was hot! The prop took a really long time to lap in though. I was at it for at least 45 min. There is absolutely no drag on this system at all. The wind will almost spin the the prop now!
Put the boat in on Sunday and ran it easy to make sure all was well with it. It ran really well with less vibration and noise. The prop change really made a big difference as I went from a factory OJ 14X16 to a OJ 428 CNC. Hard turns to the left are now not obnoxiously loud as they had been since the boat was new. The one downside was I felt a hiccup once at ~36 mph. I put the boat on the lift and checked everything to see if there was an indication of anything. In my head I thought the prop had gotten loose so I tightened the nut down on the prop as I had installed it with the original castle nut and then put the nyloc on it afterrwards which wasn't firm against the prop. Hindsight always being 20/20, I should have loosened the nut and tried to move the prop. I ordered another nyloc and cotter pin and I'm going to pull the boat tomorrow night and verify the prop again. If indeed it got loose the only reason why I see that happening was if I didn't get all the lapping compound out or the key held it up. I did mark the shaft with a sharpie during dry fit up and it went on fully. So, any ideas on this? Also, I noticed when the boat is in neutral the prop shaft spins ever so slightly. I don't think this a major concern but I don't know if it's common or not. As mentioned before the system has exceptionally low drag now. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Grant,
Concerning your "hiccup" Understand the prop nut seats the prop onto the taper. If the taper is good, then the nut isn't even needed. Then, if the key wasn't in the keyway causing the prop to not seat on the taper, you would have had lots of vibration. So, I have a feeling what happened is the prop cavitated briefly. Get out on the water and try it again. For whatever reason, under certain conditions, props will let loose of the water occasionally. All it takes is a small pocket of air getting to the prop say from making a turn and going over a wave. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10637 |
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From your description, you're describing a "dirty neutral". You can search here on CCF or click on the link below and do some reading. If it's as slow as you say, I wouldn't worry about it especially if you can stop the shaft with something like a 2 by 4 lightly pressed against the coupling. link What kind of metal is your nyloc nut made of? |
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gcam4
Groupie Joined: March-21-2017 Location: Charlotte, NC Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Pete, Sounds good and your points make sense. The boat ran great before and after the "hiccup" but it just seemed odd. I was in middle school when this boat was bought by my parents and I do not know of any times that it has done this. I will say I was driving through our slalom course when this happened so it wasn't wave or turn induced. There was no indication of vibration after it did it though so I would imagine you are correct. There is definitely a noticeable tone difference in the 3-4k rpm range, it is slightly louder. I believe this is just the nature of the prop change by itself. |
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gcam4
Groupie Joined: March-21-2017 Location: Charlotte, NC Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Keno, Thanks, I will look that up. It doesn't seem excessive at all but will check the linkage and see how much drag it takes to stop the shaft. Prop nyloc is brass. I'm well aware of stainless and it's propensity to gall with stainless fasteners. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3587 |
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Sounds like you have made great progress. You will figure out the bugs soon enough.
How did your new prop RPM compared to the old prop? |
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wetskier2000
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2005 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Dumb questions... What's the log?? How is cutlass wear determined? Visual inspection? Micrometer?
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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The log is where the prop shaft goes through the hull. It holds the shaft packing gland keeping the water out. Regarding the cutlass bearing, if you can feel movement in the shaft, then it's time for a new cutlass.
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wetskier2000
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2005 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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disconnect the coupling to check for movement?
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Rick, There's no need to disconnect the shaft at the trans coupling. The movement you what to look for is radial of the shaft in the cutlass.
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fahtal
Groupie Joined: August-31-2020 Location: NL Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Hi
We are planning to replace the cutlass bearing. it the prop can wiggle1 a 2 mm sideways in the bearing. so far i can see there is this type of bearing inside. see picture can anybody tell me this is the correct type of bearing? it has a neopreem inside lining. Also can anybody direct me to the type of cutlass bearing you would order. or dimensions. I see on youtube movies it somtimes are 2 bearings ours looks like one long piece. we have SN from 89 with a 1" shaft. it is a bit difficult to find nautique specialised companies in the Netherlands |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Frank,
Look for the Johnson brand of cutlass. You should be able to find it over there. If not, cutlass bearings are very standard worldwide. You will want one with a 1" ID and a 1/1/4" OD. One or two piece styles have been used. Take a close look at what's in your strut but, I personally feel ether doesn't make a big difference. I'd go with one at 4" long.
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fahtal
Groupie Joined: August-31-2020 Location: NL Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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great thank you that looks like what i found here. couldn`t find the johnsons brand. but this will also work.
next mission finding an acme 542;) in europe |
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fahtal
Groupie Joined: August-31-2020 Location: NL Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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So I Removed the old bearing, made myself a tool;) but the last bit was a bit difficult becaus my pushers were a bit short. so with a forcegrip and a puller i got it out... But as recommended i bought a 4" bearing. but now i am in doubt. the old one is 6" and the strut is allittlebit more then 6". can i use the 4" and is it ok to put it flush with the back of the strut? then there will be 2" of space waar sand and stuff can accumulate.. or is that not a problem? |
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2840 |
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I would want a 6” bearing in a single-piece design.
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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fahtal
Groupie Joined: August-31-2020 Location: NL Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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in retro spec i would agree that was the better way to go. But I can`t find them in the netherlands. So can we manage with a 4 inch? and is it an idea to cut 2" from the old one and put in in front of the new one so there is less change of getting dirt in there? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I wouldn't worry about dirt getting in the forward empty space in the strut. Very few struts are completely filled with a cutlass bearing. Cutting the 4" in half to install one on each end is a option although I feel not needed.
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fahtal
Groupie Joined: August-31-2020 Location: NL Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Ok great. we will do that then only problem left is dat it have only one screw holding it in place instead of two. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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One set screw in each half should be plenty since the fit of the bearing to the strut should be pretty tight. If not, you can always drill and tap for some extra set screws.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10637 |
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Since it looks like you're using it full length and not cutting the cutlass bearing in half, one set screw will work just fine as long as the fit is pretty tight like mentioned above.
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fahtal
Groupie Joined: August-31-2020 Location: NL Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Plan so far is 4" flush with backside strut. 1 screw. And 1 screw open so dirt can escape.;) |
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