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1988 454 Ski Nautique

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    Posted: April-16-2019 at 6:06pm
Hello everyone!


                   What 454 Parts work best for speed?



       *Has anyone put a 454 in a 1988 Ski Nautique?
   Now, I already know what you're gonna say; "Barefoot", RIGHT?!!

Nope, completely different V-bottom Hull
       Barefoot Nautique is V-Bottom.
       Ski Nautique is Semi Flat Bottom (Smaller wake)
       I assume given the same engine, faster?

Barefoot Nautique is basically a 454 Boat. And a
Ski Nautique Most likely was NOT ordered with a 454, Right?


*So, I suppose a 454 and a 1:1 Velvet Drive will just drop right in, Right?!!

AND What 454 Parts work best for speed?

Work in progress;
A nice 1988 Ski Nautique
Cracked Block or freeze damaged low performance 351.



Parts:
I do have a few 1980 2 Lefts and 1 Right Hand Mercruiser 454s laying around, another 1 pair of Peanut port Heads, 1 pair of Oval Port Heads, the 3 engines already have Oval Port Heads on em and a pair of Left and Right 1.91:1 Borgwarners which I know Can't use for this build.


Also,
I have some experience with 4 Round Peanut Port Truck Heads with 2 Mecruiser Magnum Cam 454s turning 4000 (My exact Target) rpm, in a 10,000 pound 1980 Searay 31 Foot 11'11" Beam Express, Straight shafts, turning 1.88 to 1 Borgwarners and 17-18 3 blade Props for 37 MPH on the GPS in flat water (Add 3 mph for a good Head wind and 2 foot chop water) and I except, the engine Parts are a good guess, the Searay is going faster than it ever Has and as fast as it will ever go for low budget Engines.
However, Is this the answer for a light 1988 Ski Nautique?




Thank you for reading!
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1988 2001 Ski Nautique
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 6:14pm
Not sure about as late as 1988, maybe, but I know a few earlier 2001's came with factory 454s. Since you need a new engine and have 454s laying around, go for it. But I wouldnt swap a 351 for a stock 454 just to get great improvements in performance without having some other incentive, like you do. The 454 2001 I am familiar with was good for 50.xx mph. Not a whole lot more than the stock 351.    If you are going to spruce up your 454, go for it. There is a BFN on the site with a spruced up 454 that was good for mid 60s. Doubt you would get close to that in the 2001 hull, plus that was a very spruced up 454. I'll let the guys who spruce up engines pick up from here.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 6:30pm
                  Wow!
      Ok, new plan :)


   I thought MasterCraft Ski Boats had a Maxinum Hull Speed of 46 mph, then they plow caused by Hull design and Shaft angle but, different Boats! With this information, sounds like some haul lift is possible, I'll lighten it up with some Alum High flows, at least a HO Mercruiser Cam and maybe shoot for 46-49 mph.

Thank you for the good info and quick answer!



PS: No, If all was well, I'd go with at least GT40s if not trick flows, for sure 11:1s+, a 408 or really expensive 427 kit, some kinda Comp Cams proven for the set up, the Tallest Air Gap intake and take the pump belt off every run, run it dry outta the water before putting it way and NOT even care about reversion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 6:40pm
the aforementioned Barefooter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 6:47pm
    Very nice!
Music to my Ears!
Yup, that's the one, the Kind and what I'm talking about!
    You got it Good Buddy!





PS: IF mine sounds like that, who cares how fast!


     My Weekend? ...wasn't like yours!
    I like yours much Better...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 6:57pm
Small block motorbox won’t fit over the 454. Need to check for cradle compatibility. Would want to step up to a 72c/10-18 trans. I assume your marine 454’s are Lefty? They’ll make your boat handle poorly IMHO. Or go 1.23 (more mods required).

Stock (330hp) 454 should be good for about 48mph in a late 2001. Obviously the ski wake would suffer with the 300 extra lbs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Small block motorbox won’t fit over the 454. Need to check for cradle compatibility. Would want to step up to a 72c/10-18 trans. I assume your marine 454’s are Lefty? They’ll make your boat handle poorly IMHO. Or go 1.23 (more mods required).

Stock (330hp) 454 should be good for about 48mph in a late 2001. Obviously the ski wake would suffer with the 300 extra lbs.


Yup, about 375 pounds+ of old cast Iron Intake, Cylinder heads, Goose necks and Exhaust Manifolds will be changed out for Aluminum.

I'll measure the stringer distance between and see IF the engine Mounts will fit


Yes, I'll slap a 1.23 reduction on the right hand Trans I have and cut the Shaft!
               OR
What is this Transmission I have here bolted to the back of the Bell housing of this 351?

Yes, Right Hand rotation for torque to the left stabilized by driver's weight on the right and the other reason is no #%$^@& timing chain :)
I have left and right Transmissions but, they're geared 1:91 to 1
Don't know too much about those....   
Can I take the 1:91 to 1 Gear off and use as 1 to 1 some how?!!



Would this work for the Motor Box?
Last 454 I had, The Motor Box was cheaply set on top of a carpet covered 4" floor spacer STOCK.
That was a Bone Stock Truck head PCM 454 1988 supra bravura, Started out life with 14-12 Prop 35mph at RPM? screaming, Next 14-18 3000 RPM 40 MPH on Speed-o now we're getting places. I tried everything for props from 14-12, Bigger Carburetor helped most, Full speed advance helped too, and chucked that Holly for a Eldebrock 1411 (Rochester) for best 3800 rpm for a final very disappointing 2 mph at 42 mph with a 14-17 3 blade prop I think it was. Sold to the Highest Bidder!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 7:57pm
Motorbox issue is primarily width but I’m not sure length wouldn’t be an issue also.

Stock small block trans is a 71c/10-17.

Stringer width is the same, motor mount width is pretty standard in the marine industry. It’s the longitudinal placement of the mounts that may not fall over the scalloped stringers (facilitating through bolts). It’s possible cc built the stringers the same for big and all block but you’ll need to confirm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 8:08pm
You could warm up and stroke a 351W and put out more ponies than a stock 454. Lighter and fixes the fitment issues....

JQ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

You could warm up and stroke a 351W and put out more ponies than a stock 454. Lighter and fixes the fitment issues....

JQ

+ 1


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

You could warm up and stroke a 351W and put out more ponies than a stock 454. Lighter and fixes the fitment issues....

JQ


+2
Summer is already here, outta time
We'll get rid of some parts, get it all together first as a stocker
and the rest you and I mentioned we'll have to put next to the back burner
to keep the idea warm during the winter


***********************************************************************


Yes Sir I called it, When Mechanics go whiled!

Yes, the basic 351 parts ya wanna put on your Boat, are available now for instance a top kit makes a 351 amazingly better looking than a 454
(I have a new respect for FORDS)
However, a 427 is about as far as ya go and a 454 can go to a little beyond a nice light all aluminum 572!
Remember what The Teacher said in Gas Engines Class;
There are Substitutes and Substitute Teachers but, "No Substitute for Cubic Inches"!


   Well, the Fore and Aft Mount Measurement is 24.75" on centers for the 454 and IF they (The Boat and the 454) match...
Hopefully we can switch back and forth for indecisive decision making. lol
Yup, I'll be looking at Both some more AND 351s can be made to sound almost as nice!




Except, for right now The PCM 351 has almost ALL the wrong parts.
I have a really nice complete Left hand 351 a little rusty OMC
which is about as usable as the Cracked block 351 PCM for a build
I suppose I was thinking about this summer and was almost free!
So, for now we'll take the Cam and Cam timing gears, Aluminum Mallory Distributor, PCM Valve Covers, Oil Pan, Alternator, Water Pumps, Holley Single feed, Trans Cooler off the PCM 351 for the OMC 351 change into a PCM 351 plus change out the exhaust and intake I bought, call it good for the summer and look for some GT40s
and Comp Cam to bolt on while I use the boat until GT40 and Cam bolt on weekend.

In the mean time;
I'll be collecting my wish list in some much more needed parts.
1) Right hand Rotation SKAT 427 Kit including fat Flat Rods and Pistons
    May need to include an Updated Block for the collars of the tall Comp Cams roller
    Cam lifters     (454 already stroked)
2) Aluminum Oil Pan of some sort   
(454 has Aluminum Oil Pan plus windage tray, Main Bearing skirt and Water Oil Cooling)
3) Trick flow Aluminum Heads, Seems there are arguments (For Both 351 and 454)
4) 1.7 Roller rockers (For Both)
5) I have a cool High Rise Intake but, need one for the 454
6) Aluminum Exhaust or some kinda Headers for the Cool Mustang Exhaust note
    with water in it if that is possible.
(454 already has cool exhaust with nice note)   
7) Aluminum stringer to stringer wide sump Oil Pan...
(454 has the remote oil filter with cooler which can except, over a 2 quart+ filter)

8) 454 needs some Alum Heads and a cool Cam (I have Aluminum exhaust and Intake)
    Almost good to go...


     The FORD build will have to sit for now. Anybody selling parts 1 though 8?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 11:28pm
Phil,
I happened to notice your signature line:
"1988 Antique I mean; Ski Nautique"
FYI, the "antique" class is pre WWII.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2019 at 1:46am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Phil, LS
I happened to notice your signature line:
"1988 Antique I mean; Ski Nautique"
FYI, the "antique" class is pre WWII.


All About Me :)

Ok, I stand Corrected but, allow me to explain myself or rather indulge.
Correct Craft;
six years from being a 100 year old Antique Household name in Ski Boats and of course Unique!   See what I did there; Antique, Unique, Ski Nautique!


    You are so Right, But, this is 2019 and we're well into the next Century. So, lets take a look at the Cool Ski Boats and the really Cool engines that power them which came outta WWII and the last Century Case and point; Correct Craft which I'll tell you later has a history well into the last Century and that history will soon span 100 years not to Mention The very biggest engines, the PT Boat a very Cool Military Boat which was the start of another very cool Boat; the Cigarette Boat!

So, I wanna celebrate a little early and Cheers to waiting less than Six years for
Correct Craft's 100 year Anniversary!


Oh Man Now ya did it, I love Old Boats!
I chose a Ski Nautique Cause, of the classic Wood Boat lines, Lightest Hull I am familiar with, good flat planning hull and 1988 is getting to the end of the line, Last of the Old School Boats ya know all Chronical, no frills, no computer stuff and possibly still New enough the stringers might not need to be replaced. The engine Build part is all part of the Old School Boat thing, you know it, My thing! And a very large part of My thing is the sound an old boat should make at idle; Put-Pitchu-Thump-Put-Pitchu-Thump-Thump... kinda like a 1963 427 FORD Cammer or Twin Rows of Nine cylinders De Havilland otter, Ya know McHale's Navy PT Boat was another 1964, 1969 DZ 302 Z28 Camaro, 1971 350 LT1 and of course another favorite of mine is the quite literal side to side ROCK of a LS6 454, all cool sounding sounds from Engine exhaust of the 60s but, not exhausted and if you've heard the sound you'd know what I am talking about. As heard and seen in the above Video, with what ever engine, I am gonna bring it all back in My 1988 Ski Nautique using parts from the last Century, PCM Thermostat, PCM Air Baffle and PCM valve covers!

     With enough HP, Trust me, I'll make it fly right!     
              ...I'm gettin excited again!


Correct Craft - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correct_Craft
It was founded in 1925 by Walt C. Meloon as the Florida Variety Boat Company. Correct Craft is the oldest family-owned and operated boat manufacturer in the world. Correct Craft owns Nautique, Centurion, Supreme, Bass Cat, Yar-Craft, SeaArk and Bryant boat companies, Pleasure craft Engine Group, and Aktion Parks.


HISTORY OF THE COMPETITION SKI BOAT INDUSTRY
Waterskiing began in 1922 when Ralph Samuelson became the first American to invent
and ride a pair of water skis. The skis were simply crude wooden boards with rubber
foot straps and were roughly twice the length and width of today’s skis. Throughout the
1920s and 1930s, enthusiasm for waterskiing spread; in 1939, the American Water Ski
Association (AWSA) was formed as a nonprofit organization to promote the sport. That
same year, the first National Water Ski Championships were held. The towboat for the
first competition was an open wooden boat built of overlapping boards or strakes (similar to a wood johnboat) and powered by a four-cylinder outboard engine. The national championships were not held during World War II, and recreational boat manufacture was minimal during this time; after the war, however, interest and activity in the recreational boating industry increased as the economy boomed.
During the late 1940s and early 1950s, wooden inboard boats made by Chris-Craft
and Century Resorters, along with the Atom Skier by Correct Craft, were favored by
most skiers. These boats were the most powerful ski boats of the time, yet skier performance suffered due to the large wakes these boats produced. Boats with outboard motors had a smaller wake but did not have enough power until the advent of the twin rig concept in the early 1950s...

For those who Don't know Me, I love big engines, During the NASA/GE development of a Viable New engine of the future the GE36 I told em all GE36 won't work and My Patent US9810145B1 - Ducted impeller, changed the way Commercial Jets are Propelled, Propelled by Ducted Impeller, No longer Propelled by exhaust, Rather a New Twist on an old Turbo Prop idea, Every New Jet Aircraft out there uses but, silly Me was never paid, for My work was stolen by GE.
From that came the GE90, GEnx and GE9x for the 777-x...
I need a Better Attorney! Anybody?!!
Born in 1959, My life spans over Wood and fiberglass inboard Ski Boats. Most or even All the Wooden Inboard Boats I have came across during my formative years learning to water ski were actually Correct Craft plywood woodies which looked homemade and unidentifiable except for mistaken as homemade inboard Boats with Chrysler Crown, Hercules, Atomic... were some names of Flat Head Backwards Six engines in em least likely were twin Cockpit Century, Chriscraft, Reinell in that order and they all seemed to do an amazing speed of around 35 to 45mph.
I've never seen a Woody with a V8, including flat head, Nail head, over head and Hemi except in pictures.

I once owned a 194? Reinell woody with a Wisconsin Air cooled 10hp fully equipped with Neutral for My first Competition style Boat lol Yay, I made the Big time!

Yes, that's right, the fastest Boat I ever saw was a 45mph Boat until 1972 and My first Jet Boat ride in a Jolly Rodger with an All Aluminum 330 Oldsmobile engine for a Beat the heck outta Me, real flight of freight at 60Mph over Freighter waves just off Brace Point in West Seattle. That was it! I am hooked!

Correct and No argument;
A true antique is an item perceived as having value because of its aesthetic or historical significance, and often defined as at least 100 years old, although the term is often used loosely to describe any object that is old. An antique is usually an item that is collected or desirable because of its age, beauty, rarity, condition, utility, personal emotional connection, and/or other unique features. It is an object that represents a previous era or time period in human history...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2019 at 11:05am
How about a picture of the '88?
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2019 at 11:33am
Hello Phil,
     Welcome to the site. While there is no such thing as a 46 mph maximum hull speed, the hard chine on these boats combined with shaft angles and typical hook on the back of the hull can make for some dangerous conditions at higher than stock speeds. Loading makes a big difference in that you never want more weight in the front than in the back at higher speeds, and the prop design can also make a difference. I have one prop has planted the nose and spun around numerous times at 52mph, the one I run day to day doesn't get squirrely till 4-5 mph past that.   A following sea, deceleration coming down a wake.. all need to be taken into account but nothing magic about 46 except how much hp it takes to get past it.   I believe the 88 2001 has a bit more weight forward than the earlier models and my experience is mostly in earlier hulls so take a little extra caution with weight forward in your boat.   

This site is not the easiest to search, but if you go to google and do a correctcraftfan.com site search from there you should be able to find build results from just about every engine combination you would want, 351s, 408s, 427s, or 454s in hulls similar to yours.
Taking the gear reduction off your transmissions would probably be more expensive than sourcing a 1:1 72c transmission. If you have a rh motor ready to go probably about the cheapest you are going to get wet is with that motor, finding a transmission, and doing something to get a box over the motor. Glad to see you are excited about your project.
1983 Ski Nautique 2001
1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy"
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indecisiveness
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2019 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

Hello Phil,
     Welcome to the site. While there is no such thing as a 46 mph maximum hull speed, the hard chine on these boats combined with shaft angles and typical hook on the back of the hull can make for some dangerous conditions at higher than stock speeds. Loading makes a big difference in that you never want more weight in the front than in the back at higher speeds, and the prop design can also make a difference. I have one prop has planted the nose and spun around numerous times at 52mph, the one I run day to day doesn't get squirrely till 4-5 mph past that.   A following sea, deceleration coming down a wake.. all need to be taken into account but nothing magic about 46 except how much hp it takes to get past it.   I believe the 88 2001 has a bit more weight forward than the earlier models and my experience is mostly in earlier hulls so take a little extra caution with weight forward in your boat.   

This site is not the easiest to search, but if you go to google and do a correctcraftfan.com site search from there you should be able to find build results from just about every engine combination you would want, 351s, 408s, 427s, or 454s in hulls similar to yours.
Taking the gear reduction off your transmissions would probably be more expensive than sourcing a 1:1 72c transmission. If you have a rh motor ready to go probably about the cheapest you are going to get wet is with that motor, finding a transmission, and doing something to get a box over the motor. Glad to see you are excited about your project.


                      Thank you!

       
Your Boat I think is for the most part same as mine, More very good information!
               Yes, I can see these things getting squirrelly.

   Yup, we're gonna go back a forth 454 and 351, while I accumulate parts;
The PCM 351 is going back in 1st after a Patch job (no machining) for now.
This Summer I can't go without a Boat and I have all the 351 Parts for free-free-free!


Hole Shot!

    !indecisiveness!
Wow, After seeing your uncanny Holeshot Video...
Same 408 stroker?
I just can't see a 454 doing that?!!   454s need a little time to build up Manifold Vacuum.
The 454 most likely WILL NOT stay in the Boat for very long.



Yes Sir, working on that avatar picture... I don't have, a good Side shot, Yet
Wait... I think I got it! Yes, There we go




      











   



1986 Magnum Skier, Had to sell cause, it would get all My Best Looking Friends Wet at Idle when going over it's own wake and we can't have that.


1991 190 with a 1999 350 Vortec, Roller Cam, 1:5 and 14-16 four blade; beat the fastest Jet Skis outta the Hole but, I couldn't get the Bow to lift up So, 46MPH plow hit a wall of and Stopped right there no faster. Sold to the Highest Bidder!

1988 454 with Truck heads Supra bravura, Cool Boat, 42MPH adjustments only no modes, I thought too heavy and Gave up. Sold to the Highest Bidder!

1980 454 Oval Port Century Coronado No Modes   Speed? Was lifting outta the Water pretty good and Beat most Jet skis. Sold to the Highest Bidder Still in Down town Snohomish!

Here's a good story; Flying Cloud 1980 Sea Ray Express, Came from Lake Union got it from the owner of https://dopemagazine.com L/R 454 twins Truck heads I think the secret is the mismatched 049 Intakes, 1.88 to 1s, for 37MPH on the GPS

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87sn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2019 at 1:19am
Hi, I have a 1987 Ski Nautique 2001 that was factory ordered and delivered with a 454. It’s not the barefoot model, but rather the ski model. This very boat was originally the tow boat of the University of Minnesota ski club team.   It’s a lot of motor in this boat. Sounds awesome. Let me know if there are any specific questions I can answer for you. I’ll do my best. Thanks
Current Inboards:
2019 Malibu Wakesetter 23 LSV
2005 Supra Launch 21 DD
1987 CC Ski Nautique 2001 (454 cid)
1957 Century Resorter

Outboards:
Dozens of vintage outboards. I love them. Have a few fun play
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2019 at 2:34am
Originally posted by 87sn 87sn wrote:

Hi, I have a 1987 Ski Nautique 2001 that was factory ordered and delivered with a 454. It’s not the barefoot model, but rather the ski model. This very boat was originally the tow boat of the University of Minnesota ski club team.   It’s a lot of motor in this boat. Sounds awesome. Let me know if there are any specific questions I can answer for you. I’ll do my best. Thanks



HI!

Boy, am I glade to Meet YOU!


My fear is;
I've had some boats of lesser design, 454s included, which nose drive into their own wake when turning around to pick up a downed skier, take the wave right over the windshield into My lap and down the observer's back or in the case of the Supra, water would go across the Bow deck and leak down into the Cuddy cabin through the Bow Deck hatch.

UPDATE and thanx to you, not really a question, Now

See, the original question or thought was;
I don't have a right hand 351w laying around but, I do have a right hand 454 (and a Left hand 351W/OMC).
Can a 454 go into a 1988 Ski Nautique 2001?
I don't really wish to be the first to put the right engine in the wrong boat, continue my fear and have everyone tell me "That engine doesn't even belong there"!
Looks like you answered my question, thank you very much!

Soooooooooooooo, WAS looking like I bought the wrong year. I Usually go for an older boat but, I thought I'd keep up with the Jones and Buy a Newer than my usual antics Boat, with no consideration for a 454. I thought 88 no problem. I got to thinking after I bought the 1988 Ski Nautique 2001. Fortified with All I know and found out here, before your information, was 454 up to about 1981 ish (Correct me if I am wrong as you can see in my thread here).

*****UPDATE*****
Regardless, looks like the Mounts match, removed the Cracked Block 351W from the 1988 Ski Nautique 2001. Went to work on test running the already complete 1976 Mercruiser 454 sitting in My Barn and the 454 ran horridly, with extreme blow by...
I thought, huh?!! OMG! I never did get it to run right.    

So, with last winter being a really cold one, I bought another Cracked Block but, this time a Left Hand 351W in 1990 Seaswirl Spyder Skier (to use My left hand 351W/OMC in) last week AND a recently rebuilt RIGHT HAND FWC 351W with all the trimmings Yesterday 5-24-2019 Yay! You know, who wants to change Distributor, Cool Cam, Oil Pump, Sea pump impeller Direction Plus GT40 Heads... Hope it all works and make it all NOT leak Oil again?!!   



Ok, Everything is ready, Now! Rain came, rained all day today, I caught a Bad cold and have not installed anything as of yet but, things are looking up for next week, I think


****New Question******
Even though My 454 Project is on the back burner, now...
Ok, here goes, My question for you now is;
With Driver, Observer up front in their respective seats and one extra passenger, Dose your Boat occasionally take a wave over the windshield?

...I'm thinking 454, with a large bilge pump, the Spyder Bow rider area will suck all the water inside the boat, instead of over the windshield and just get everyone's feet cold and wet

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87sn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2019 at 6:42pm
Wave over the bow, it can happen it you don’t pay attention. I had a Supra Mariah from the late 80’s that would swamp all the time. Open bow and low rise. Had the 351 in it. I learned quickly to get a little gas and get the bow up in the air when crossing boat Wake rollers. It probably became habit as I do the same with the 2001. As such, I don’t take waves over the bow.

If you go by the 1988 correct craft brochure, there’s only 200 lbs difference between the barefoot natique with a 454 vs 351. My guess that same could be true for a 2001 with the 454 vs the 351 all things being equal. 200 lbs isn’t enough to squat the boat much. That’s about an average adult riding in the center of the boat. If your put 6 more people in, then yes, that extra 200 lbs will be noticeable. With just a driver and a spotter, can’t say I see the boat sitting any lower in the water than it should.
Current Inboards:
2019 Malibu Wakesetter 23 LSV
2005 Supra Launch 21 DD
1987 CC Ski Nautique 2001 (454 cid)
1957 Century Resorter

Outboards:
Dozens of vintage outboards. I love them. Have a few fun play
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2019 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by 87sn 87sn wrote:

Wave over the bow, it can happen it you don’t pay attention. I had a Supra Mariah from the late 80’s that would swamp all the time. Open bow and low rise. Had the 351 in it. I learned quickly to get a little gas and get the bow up in the air when crossing boat Wake rollers. It probably became habit as I do the same with the 2001. As such, I don’t take waves over the bow.

If you go by the 1988 correct craft brochure, there’s only 200 lbs difference between the barefoot natique with a 454 vs 351. My guess that same could be true for a 2001 with the 454 vs the 351 all things being equal. 200 lbs isn’t enough to squat the boat much. That’s about an average adult riding in the center of the boat. If your put 6 more people in, then yes, that extra 200 lbs will be noticeable. With just a driver and a spotter, can’t say I see the boat sitting any lower in the water than it should.



You are so right and thank you for that information!
   Lifting fully dressed 454s in the past and lifting the 351w from the Donor Boat the day before yesterday and into the 1988 Ski Nautique 2001 Yesterday; I haven't noticed much difference in weight on the hook.    More to come on this subject, in the future

*Update*
I wanted to get things done today for My Birthday is today but, Taking a break
(Here's a shot of the 351W in the 1988 Ski Nautique 2001) cause, I ran short on bolts
I bought Bar Exhaust Manifolds which take eight 4" long bolts, I'll get em tomorrow...







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 4:41pm
*Update*
I know I started this thread out saying 454 but, figure when you're changing things Retro-fitting from stock as ordered; "Retro-fitting" is TIME and MONEY!

Was hard enough finding a matching year Marine PCM 351W but, I am glade I did change the 454 direction back to original PCM 351W;
I know you're suppose to take the whole running gear out but, I went the risky route cause, I am pressed for time. So, separated the original engine from the boat at the bell housing and Block to engine mounts (Risky cause, the bell housing alignment dowels are usually rusted in on the way out and clutch splines need to line up with trans splines on the way in plus the mounts are in the way for this but, it all slipped out and back together like a good plan), worked great for back in and alignment. The replacement PCM 351W has all the marine gear on it PLUS FWC cooling for HEATER and all those wish list aluminum updates, no retro fitting, No drilling holes, changing mounts or Fuel filter side AND the Engine Electrical harness just plugged in.

Done?!! No!

I spent more time on setting up an Electronic Mallory distributor, chasing why the engine would NOT shut off (Needs the original ignition resister voltage drop to shut off) and of course the infamous clogged fuel line. Added spin on filter but, need to get a shorty filter spin on so cover will close easier. Hint; The fuel tank pickup screen is inside the Fuel pickup tube where the tube separates from the Tank 90 degree fitting, removed the Filter element, using original filter housing as a settlement bowel ONLY and added a Mercruiser spin on filter which matches the original filter bolt locations.

I think or hope I am done now?!! and going for water test soon...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by 2001 2001 wrote:

*



I spent more time on setting up an Electronic Mallory distributor, chasing why the engine would NOT shut off (Needs the original ignition resister voltage drop to shut off)



I'm not feeling too smart today, cam you explain this statement?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by 2001 2001 wrote:

*



I spent more time on setting up an Electronic Mallory distributor, chasing why the engine would NOT shut off (Needs the original ignition resister voltage drop to shut off)



I'm not feeling too smart today, cam you explain this statement?



   Mallory Electronic wants the Higher Voltage attained before the ignition resister, prefered and this works great but, When ignition switch is turned off and or the Rest set switch on the dash is tripped at High Idle; The Alternator "Exciter" (is Missing a Zener Diode and this being an isolated case? For sure, a "Retro fit" issue) actually back feeds the ignition (See Schematic).

I believe, the Mallory Electronic CAN operate with the low Amperage output of the "Exciter" which dose NOT directly explain the inner workings of how the "Coil" is able to produce a spark in this Case?


Also, on the wiring note, a word of caution, like it or not (No safety fusable links or fuses exist in the entire electrical system), the 30 to 50 amp RED RESET switch absolutely HAS TO BE IN THE CIRCUIT! The dash reset switch is a good idea too but, I think two clear glass tube fuses one to feed the ignition and one to feed the dash and an actual Marine RED Perko Battery disconnect would be safer and more reliable in keeping with Marine standards.


Note: I think the exciter side of the Alternator needs to be energized periodically to maintain the Alternator Polarity, Bridge rectifier and Diodes.

https://www.amazon.com/Perko-9601DP-Marine-Battery-Disconnect/dp/B00144BF9Q/ref=asc_df_B00144BF9Q/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584070138128089&psc=1


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by 2001 2001 wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by 2001 2001 wrote:

*



I spent more time on setting up an Electronic Mallory distributor, chasing why the engine would NOT shut off (Needs the original ignition resister voltage drop to shut off)



I'm not feeling too smart today, cam you explain this statement?



   Mallory wants the Higher Voltage attained before the ignition resister, prefered and this works great but, When ignition switch is turned off and or the Rest set switch on the dash is tripped at High Idle; The Alternator "Exciter" (is Missing a Zener Diode and this being an isolated case?) actually back feeds the ignition (See Schematic).

Also, on the wiring note, a word of caution, like it or not (No safety fusable links or fuses exist in the entire electrical system), the 30 to 50 amp RED RESET switch absolutely HAS TO BE IN THE CIRCUIT! The dash reset switch is a good idea too but, I think a clear glass tube fuse and an actual Marine RED Perko Battery disconnect would be safer and more reliable in keeping with Marine standards.

https://www.amazon.com/Perko-9601DP-Marine-Battery-Disconnect/dp/B00144BF9Q/ref=asc_df_B00144BF9Q/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584070138128089&psc=1




So go find that missing diode wherever it went or get an alternator that functions as it should and you won't have to blame things on the distributor or the ballast resistor

You said it yourself "it's an "isolated case" because of your alternator
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 7:39pm
[/QUOTE]

So go find that missing diode wherever it went or get an alternator that functions as it should and you won't have to blame things on the distributor or the ballast resistor

You said it yourself "it's an "isolated case" because of your alternator[/QUOTE]


   There ya see, imagine what I'd have to figure out for a 454 retro fit!

Correct! And Yes, your answer seemingly being the best solution!
However, I think a stock solution is always the best;
Power or wire the Electronic Distributor as shown on the Schematic.

A Marine electrical system WAS a careful balance of resistance, amperage and properly sized wires rather than the LATEST ECM, Diodes and Electronic relays.
This why I think the "Ballast Resister" is serving a dual purpose in doing the work or Job of the Diode with Voltage drop.

We'll also look into a
good quality Balmar Marine Alternator to see if the Diode exits or what their solution is.

A water test will tell some too. ...More to come

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 10:00pm
So what kind of alternator do you have on that thing?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2019 at 3:10am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

So what kind of alternator do you have on that thing?



   -Uncertain-
Looks like the typical Alternator PCM, Indmar, Mercruiser, OMC, Volvo... used at the time with External Regulator on the Back.
The Identification plate is not legible.
Delco Remy?


*UPDATE*
Water test today 6/4/2019!
My Humble opinion; Except for the Dash reset switch, missing The Starter Solenoid Ballast resister by pass circuit and missing a Perko Disconnect switch, The wiring diagram is Marine standard correct for the 1980s, the Boat is wired correctly per the Wiring diagram shown above or uploaded in previous Message here in this forum and the Boat runs, shuts down and starts superbly.
Also My Humble opinion, during the water test I have concluded, the Ballast Resister
is the only thing keeping the Back feed of the Alternator Exciter circuit from allowing Engine run on after ignition shut down.

Note:
The Starter Solenoid resister by pass circuit is not used, most likely for the same reason.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2019 at 8:42am
Phil,
Regarding the engine not shutting down, you have mentioned you feel the ignition is still getting the volts when the key switch is turned off.. What voltage are you reading and where? have you tried disconnecting the alternator?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2019 at 9:02am
Originally posted by 2001 2001 wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

So what kind of alternator do you have on that thing?



   -Uncertain-
Looks like the typical Alternator PCM, Indmar, Mercruiser, OMC, Volvo... used at the time with External Regulator on the Back.
The Identification plate is not legible.
Delco Remy?


*UPDATE*
Water test today 6/4/2019!
My Humble opinion; Except for the Dash reset switch, missing The Starter Solenoid Ballast resister by pass circuit and missing a Perko Disconnect switch, The wiring diagram is Marine standard correct for the 1980s, the Boat is wired correctly per the Wiring diagram shown above or uploaded in previous Message here in this forum and the Boat runs, shuts down and starts superbly.
Also My Humble opinion, during the water test I have concluded, the Ballast Resister
is the only thing keeping the Back feed of the Alternator Exciter circuit from allowing Engine run on after ignition shut down.

Note:
The Starter Solenoid resister by pass circuit is not used, most likely for the same reason.




Funny that you think PCM used a resistor bypass circuit for starting on their 351's back then and it somehow was left off the diagram.

Funny how some companies used the bypass and others didn't

Funny that you don't know what you have for an Alternator.

Funny that some alternators will always backfeed through the exciter wire and others won't since they're built differently

Funny that nobody else with a correctly functioning Motorola or Mando alternator that came on the mid 80's PCM 351.s has this problem

Also funny that you feel the need to tell everybody how PCM should have done the wiring

I can understand how and why the resistor is letting the engine shut off, but if your alternator is backfeeding through the exciter wire it's easy enough to prevent that and still bypass the ballast resistor, but I'm sure you can figure that out, since you seem to think you have everything else figured out.

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