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PCM 409 Repower

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    Posted: September-18-2018 at 2:46pm
Summer ski season is winding down which means it’s time to generate some boat buzz on CCFan. Most of you have seen this project on social media but I’m finally getting around to posting my most recent boat related project with the CCFan world.



Over the last three years my slalom skiing has started to progress and most our time has been spent chasing buoys instead of working on old boats. Additionally, our ski club has grown from myself and a buddy to 16 members and counting! Most importantly, Mrs. Mars has started skiing passes and progressing at an alarming rate! We’re all hooked at the future of skiing looks bright in Iowa.

I struggled with Stargazer for a few years and could not get rid of the dreaded hot 3 ball. Simply put, I had no interest in working on PerfectPass knowing our short setups are hard to drive and our chances of getting it right were slim to none.

That being said - new boats are insane money, the 01 SN we have isn’t going anywhere soon and I wasn’t thrilled about any of the ZO boats in our budget. I love the GT-40 but hate the 40a trans whine and PerfectPass with a passion - so out with the old, in with the new!

Contacted Tim White of Inboard Solutions to discuss re-power options. Tim is a wealth of knowledge and all around great guy. He assured me I wouldn’t have to modify the 01 in any major way and could always re-install the GT-40 if we decided to go back to the original setup sometime in the future. Tim is an awesome dude and very helpful throughout the process.

He gave me several different engine options, both 343 and 409, at varying price points from PCM’s remanufactured inventory. The engine options he gave me ranged from 2009 – 2016 and were all under 150 hours. I settled on a 2010 409 packaged with a new 80a transmission and Zero Off.

Seriously, what’s not to love about a 409 powered reverse gel SN with a matching tandem axle Ramlin trailer?

The gt-40 came out late in November and took about 2 hours with the help of a few ski buddies. Not nearly enough time to drink a case of beer. That motor/trans will likely be used in another big project I have in the works. More on that another year!

GT-40 Fun






The 409 arrived late December but Christmas and the new year limited my time in the shop. Plenty of time to get my ducks in a row and plan the install. The new rig sat down nicely on the existing engine cradle with no modifications in the bilge. PCM sent a motor mount kit for the TSC 1 hull making allowing the new engine/trans to utilize the existing motor mount locations.

Delivery Day! I was in FL when the new power plant arrived.








By February the roads were somewhat clean and I was able to drag the boat from our warehouse to my garage allowing me to work on the boat at night. Clearance around the front motor mounts is really tight so alignment took a bit longer than expected – plenty of beer and a few choice words in this part of the project.

Bolted down and heading to the lake!




Maddox helping in the garage


One common misconception with this conversion is the throttle/trans cables. We were able to use our existing cables and original throttle and didn’t have to change the throttle or cables. This was one of my first questions to Tim as I had no interest in replacing the entire throttle and converting the throttle cable. Plus, I had just replaced both the throttle and trans cables. I don't have any good pics of the intake with cables connected but I'll assure you it's very straightforward.

PCM makes a wire harness adapter so all the electronics are plug and play to the dash.
Zero Off was similar to a PP install – relatively easy and straightforward. I’m admittedly not good with electronics so I spent way more time on this part of the project than necessary. Worst part of the entire project was installing the ZO puck on the bow requiring a 1” hole in the deck which made me sick. This was really the only major negative to the whole project. Time to call in the experts!

Fingers crossed!


One of my ski buddies is a GPS specialist and engineer for John Deere. He’s also one of the most detailed guys I’ve ever met. Perfect guy for this part of the job. We discussed the plan over a few cold beers, both measured 30 some times, drank more beer and talked things over another 15 times. Fueled with liquid courage, I finally did the honors (or horrific act) and executed the plan to perfection. Souvenir plug now resting proudly on my tool box lid and a ZO puck placed perfectly on the deck.

Measure 30 times, drill once



Oh the horror!


The first test ride took place in early March and was 99% successful. Transmission linkage was spot on from the start, engine temp ran cool as a cucumber and the first ride was an absolute blast! I took a second look at the alignment when we got back and cleaned up a few wires under the dash.

Just need a drivers seat and we're ready to rip!


CCFans always supporting our drinking efforts.


Since everything was now connected, powered at the key pad and water tested I moved on to fitting the engine cover. The 409 is a bit taller than the GT-40 so my brother-in-law and I built a 2.5” engine cover shim in order to utilize a stock motor box. Not a major project by any means and is relatively unnoticeable with matching grey carpet from C &S Marine. Clearance between the pylon and engine cover is much tighter but I haven’t seen any signs of wear on the vinyl this summer.

Concept shim


BIL (Brother-In-Law) working his magic


Finished product!




Time to go skiing!


Since I had already spent more money than the boss initially approved ran the ACME 422 this summer. In the slalom course, the 422 performed just fine but found the rev limiter (5,600 rpms) quickly when playing outside the course. IIRC, top speed with the 422 was right around around 48mph with only yours truly driving and minimal fuel in the tank. Stan C down in FL hooked me up with a new 668 last week which is a huge improvement, silky smooth at all rpms.

Funny story - Zoe wasn't exactly aware I had purchased a new prop a few weeks back. Coincidently, she ran a PB first set with the 668! So naturally I took advantage of the opportunity to inform her we had purchased a new prop when she got back in the boat. You CCFans have trained me well!

I haven’t seen a true top speed with the 668 yet. We hit 48.5 with more to go while driving back to the dock on our small ski club lake (1900)’ but ran out of lake to get a true top speed. Hope to collect more data this coming weekend pending weather. FYI - TRBenj also suggested the three blade ACME 3098 (13.5x15.5) but Stan gave me a good deal on the 668. We'll try the 3098 someday and report back with some performance numbers.

Overall, I'm thrilled with how the entire project turned out! The boat skis great and is an absolute blast to drive! Plenty of power and silky smooth across the board. It's spent most of the summer on my lift pulling our 6AM sets and 12-15 skiers during our Wednesday night ski league. I'm guessing we've put more than 100 hours on the boat this summer and it hasn't missed a beat!

Ok...just a few more pics from this summer!


01 and the Iowa Promo (6.2L 200!)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 3:11pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 3:51pm
Really beautiful boat, Chris. Nice job. What line length are you skiing in that 1st picture?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 3:56pm
I was wondering when this would finally surface on CCF. My favorite part of this is hearing about more folks who are getting totally addicted to buoys and making that a priority! Awesome!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Treybizttu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 4:06pm
Such an awesome boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Really beautiful boat, Chris. Nice job. What line length are you skiing in that 1st picture?


Thanks Bruce! That picture was taken earlier this summer so most likely a 22 off pass at 34mph. Finally getting used to 36mph this summer and running lots of -22 and -28 off passes by the end of this season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by M3Fan M3Fan wrote:

I was wondering when this would finally surface on CCF. My favorite part of this is hearing about more folks who are getting totally addicted to buoys and making that a priority! Awesome!


Here's the best part, Joel - My wife, Zoe, had not skied a full pass until this spring (26mph long line) but started running full passes this year. Towards the end of the year she ditched long line and seen 5 ball at 28-15 a few times.

My wife, Zoe (brunette) and Toni (blonde) on the starting dock at their first tournament


So she decides to ski the last tournament of the year and I just encourage her to have fun. I'm nervous she'll fall early and quit....but she goes out and runs 28mph with ease and nearly ran the 30mph pass! She's still two handing turns! I could see the excitement on her face coming into 5 ball (way early), overturned and fell but she had it in the bag. Toni hasn't skied much this year but nearly ran a full pass that weekend.

Safe to say they're hooked and will be back for more next year!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcam4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 4:30pm
Awesome! I've been wanting to buy a 97-01 with high hours and do the exact same thing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 5:18pm
coolest TSC1 on the planet , nice job and all.... but Zoe Rocks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fl Inboards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 6:02pm
Nice bubble butt! seen the spacer under the motor box. I have set a number of Excalibur e-control engines in bubble butt's and wondered about the LS engines and whether or not the motor box would go down over the engine. My 09 196 6.0 has lots of impingement between the motor box and engine.
I bet that boat will haul the mail Too! mine runs in excess of 54 MPH you might be looking high 50's!!
Nice boat!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 6:02pm
Very cool project Chris. I know ZO was a big part of your decision, but how would you describe the difference in boat handling with 409 vs. GT40? Also, do you know if there is much difference in weight between the two engine/tranny combinations?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 6:50pm
Alan - you've got that right! She's skiing well AND driving for me while wrangling two kids in the boat. I'm a lucky dude!

Jody - Thanks man! I'm not too concerned about top speed but it sure is fun to get into it once in a while.

David - Major difference (outside of top end speed) is the acceleration rate at the lower speeds. Our ski club lake is really short, spinning at each end of the lake in order to get up to speed before the pre-gates. We have no problem getting to 36 in time with a full boat and can make the turn (maybe 26-30mph) without having to accelerate abruptly before finishing the turn. Skiers seem to love this as they're not screaming around the turn allowing them to relax and settle into their pass. The 409 is really comparable to the 6.2L Promo 200 in this regard. Other boats in the club (5.7 BU, 99 MC, 343SN etc) need minimal crew and require quite a bit of throttle before finishing the turn to have a chance.

Outside of the course, the 409 seems to idle a touch smoother and is quieter in the boat than the GT-40. The best decision I made was investing in the 80A trans. No more high pitch whine at speed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northcoastidol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2018 at 9:19pm
Great job Chris on the 409 power plant upgrade, That is a Bad Ass 01 now, thanks for sharing your project with all CCF fam! Now you and the family need to get out of Iowa and let some of us ski that beauty again. you guys need to get out and hang again.
Always be ready for a run, the water does not wait for you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2018 at 1:01am
Looking good Chris!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2018 at 4:36am
Very Nice Boat, great upgrade.
I am curious how well your engine pulls compared to stroking a GT40 from 351 inches to 408 inches with a stroker crankshaft.

The 408 conversion would be less than 1/2 the cost.   Yours is perfect for sure, just curious if the stroker option was considered.
I believe we have a couple members that are running 408's on this forum, not sure if they are in the newer hull like yours.
I imagine the torque would be similar between the two options but suspect the 408 would come up 30-40 HP shy of the 409.
It would be fun to see dyno numbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2018 at 8:51am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Very Nice Boat, great upgrade.
I am curious how well your engine pulls compared to stroking a GT40 from 351 inches to 408 inches with a stroker crankshaft.

The 408 conversion would be less than 1/2 the cost.   Yours is perfect for sure, just curious if the stroker option was considered.
I believe we have a couple members that are running 408's on this forum, not sure if they are in the newer hull like yours.
I imagine the torque would be similar between the two options but suspect the 408 would come up 30-40 HP shy of the 409.
It would be fun to see dyno numbers.


People have enough trouble with the capability of the ECM on stock or mildly modified GT-40's . Joe in Kansas (gt40KS) just for one example and you're wondering about a 408 stroker presumably keeping the fuel injection?

There could be a long dragged out learning curve going that route as compared to a complete pretty much drop in engine package like he went with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcam4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2018 at 9:22am
Chris, if you sont mind answering how much money did you save getting a remanufactured 409 vs a new one? I wasn't even aware PCM had remanufactured. ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2018 at 10:13am
<thread jack> Awesome regarding Zoe's skiing. That's exactly where Beth is at, running 28 and 30mph @-15, getting into 32mph. I'd recommend getting Zoe a carbon ski ASAP to take her right into 34 next year, the 2014-19 Vapor Lithiums are great options and great values on the older end of the spectrum. Beth skis a 2015 Vapor and loves it. Any 2013+ D3 would be great too.</thread jack>

For folks talking about modifying the GT40 instead- Pretty sure Chris wasn't considering a GT40 modification since the main motivation was Zero Off which requires a particular ECU. Even the latest versions of Perfect Pass struggle with short setups and low speeds in the course and that gets really annoying really quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2018 at 11:03am
Originally posted by M3Fan M3Fan wrote:

For folks talking about modifying the GT40 instead- Pretty sure Chris wasn't considering a GT40 modification since the main motivation was Zero Off which requires a particular ECU. Even the latest versions of Perfect Pass struggle with short setups and low speeds in the course and that gets really annoying really quickly.


Joel is spot on here. Having Zero Off so we could ski behind current speed control was the real motivator. I'm a big dude and have no problem slowing down a perfect pass boat in the course. Can't get away with the same behind a ZO boat which made skiing tournaments extremely frustrating.

The 409 is mostly for the cool factor! Boat is dialed in - now I can focus on the problems at the other end of the rope!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2018 at 11:04am
Originally posted by gcam4 gcam4 wrote:

Chris, if you sont mind answering how much money did you save getting a remanufactured 409 vs a new one? I wasn't even aware PCM had remanufactured. ones.


Grant - I'll send you a note.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGregg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2021 at 1:05pm
Chris,

How did you determine the height needed for your motor box shim? We are planning to repower our 98SN with a non-cat 409 and trying to figure out if we need the full 2.5” or if we can get away with less thickness and still have clearance.

Thanks!

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2021 at 9:28pm
I can't answer for Chris but I am going to go through this with an engine change in another brand boat. Original engine is a 302 with a carb,the new is an injected 351. Using a level placed on the highest point of both engines and measuring up from where the mounts sit on the stringers the new is roughly 2 1/2" taller. Before I decide how much taller I need to make the motorbox I want to have the new one in and aligned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGregg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2021 at 11:38am
Does anyone have a template/plans for the spacer/shim needed to raise the engine box that they could share (98SN / non-cat 409 repower) ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-14-2021 at 11:27am
Originally posted by SGregg SGregg wrote:

Does anyone have a template/plans for the spacer/shim needed to raise the engine box that they could share (98SN / non-cat 409 repower) ?

Steve, my process was somewhat trail and error.  My buddy and I set the engine cover on the motor once everything was installed/aligned and shimmed the cover until we had enough clearance.  Once height was determined, I removed the engine cover, set it on a piece of 3/4" plywood, traced it out and started cutting.  We ended up adding layers of ply to get the height we needed.  I bonded all the layers together with thickened epoxy then sanded, CPES/Epoxied & added carpet to finish. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGregg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-14-2021 at 11:46am
Thanks 👍

How did you mount the spacer? We are thinking about mounting it to the flooring with pins so it is removable, just can’t tell from your pics how you guys did it?
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