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Damper Plate

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    Posted: April-15-2018 at 9:13am
Looking for a new damper plat for my 87 Ski Nautique with 351 with 1:1 transmission. I am not finding the $100 triangleish shaped one any more. I hate to pay three times that for a roughly equivalent part. Any suggestions on a good source?
For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 9:36am
You must be lookin' in all the wrong places

Try this link and you'll have a nickel left over from your hundred   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 9:38am
Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:

Looking for a new damper plat for my 87 Ski Nautique with 351 with 1:1 transmission. I am not finding the $100 triangleish shaped one any more. I hate to pay three times that for a roughly equivalent part. Any suggestions on a good source?


try this
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 9:43am
You'll save some money with the one Duane linked, but you'll expend some time and labor trimming the ears down to the right size.

That's up to you.whether you want the pre trimmed version or you want to do it yourself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 9:49am
Yes, I trimmed mine but don't remember whether I had to or just wanted to. Starter gear come in on opposite side. Maybe it was gonna hit the bell housing Took 1 minute on belt sander. Guess you could hack saw it off also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Yes, I trimmed mine but don't remember whether I had to or just wanted to. Starter gear come in on opposite side. Maybe it was gonna hit the bell housing Took 1 minute on belt sander. Guess you could hack saw it off also.


You had to

It would hit the bellhousing if you didn't

By the way,I hear you're pretty good with metal work   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 11:24am
Dave,
I did trim the last plate I got and even did it precisely using a tool maker method with layout die and scribing the radius. At the time, I had changed jobs so I didn't have the luxury of running down to the tool room and using the vertical band saw so I went at it with the jig saw. Then the final trim was on the disc sander.

Duane,
"1 minute" on the sander? What grit did you have on it? 24?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Duane,
"1 minute" on the sander? What grit did you have on it? 24?


36 grit belt.   10" X 48" belt, 5hp 440v 3ph
No hobby shop stuff here
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 2:05pm
Duane has serious toys...

"Some day, lad, all this will be yours..."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

   5hp 440v 3ph   

Duane,
Do you have the taps on your rotary set to 440 for the old 50's motors?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

   5hp 440v 3ph   

Duane,
Do you have the taps on your rotary set to 440 for the old 50's motors?


Pete,   Actually have 2 separate 3 ph breaker panels.
First one is 220 3 ph straight out of the rotary converter
Second panel is 440 3ph and it comes off of a step up transformer (220 - 440)
Really simple setup
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

   5hp 440v 3ph   

Duane,
Do you have the taps on your rotary set to 440 for the old 50's motors?


Pete,   Actually have 2 separate 3 ph breaker panels.
First one is 220 3 ph straight out of the rotary converter
Second panel is 440 3ph and it comes off of a step up transformer (220 - 440)
Really simple setup

So the rotary is tapped for 220 then for your older motors.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 7:00pm
Pete, Seems to be a little confusion here. Perhaps my terminology is incorrect. I feed 1ph 220v ac current into a rotary phase converter. The converters only job is to generate the third phase of power. That in turn feeds my 220 volt breaker panel. Then I take 220 volt 3ph to the transformer to up the voltage to 440 volt (still 3 ph) that is in turn fed into the 440 volt breaker panel that all my high voltage machinery is hooked up to. Some of my 440 volt motors are fairly new. I prefer 440 because it draws 1/2 the amperage (hence smaller wire size also) as the 220 equipment. I'm certainly not an electrical engineer. That being said I have yet to electrocute myself doing my own wiring.
edit: btw the third or generated leg is always somewhat higher voltage so you have to be careful not to use that leg for the coil in the motor starters    Clear as mud now??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 7:05pm
Did the poor guy that started this post about the damper plate ever get his answer??
Sorry bout this
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 7:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Did the poor guy that started this post about the damper plate ever get his answer??
Sorry bout this


Not only did I get my answer (thanks everyone!), But now I am learning about 3 phase 440 wiring. That is one of the things I love about CCfan, it's not the destination, its the journey!

Pete, how much gets trimed off? Is there any concern about balance, or if they are within a 1/8th inch of each other are they fine? I would likely start with a metal cutting wheel on an angle grinder and clean up from there.


For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Pete, Seems to be a little confusion here. Clear as mud now??

Duane,
Confusion maybe? I asked if you have the rotary taps (output volts) set to 220 due to old motors. 220/440 volt motors are WWII vintage. Utilities went to 230/460 service around the 60's and then 240/480 around the 80's and motor ratings followed. So, ether you have older U frame motors or you're terminology is vintage.

Dave,
Once you get the damper and if needed, we can get back on track!   

EDIT: Dave,
For the diameter of trim, just use the diameter of the flywheel less the ring gear. Don't worry about the balance too much. There's not much material to throw it off. Just get as close as you can.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2018 at 11:40pm
Thanks Pete

Based on the half hole visible it appears the $99 version is just a cut down $75 plate. I can easily cut it down very near perfect myself, so long as I cant hurt anything.
For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2018 at 8:29am
Just a reminder that you'll have 3 bolts leftover when you're done, since only 3 holes line up on these replacement plates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2018 at 12:06am
Plate is ordered, Now I need to order some warm weather. We typically average 3" of snow in April. We are over 24" this year and more forecast for tomorrow. Yuck!

For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2018 at 12:36am
Dave.....Do you have the transmission taken off yet? Post some pictures of the project. I would find it interesting. Good luck with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2018 at 2:34am
The boat is still snug in its winter bed. I hope it is a one day job once we get started. Some 60 degree weather might motivate us. Until then there are other priorities. I have had the transmission off before, It was not too difficult, but it was outside of the boat at the time.
For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2018 at 9:57pm
Part is here, Is there a concise set of step by step instructions on this site or elsewhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2018 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by OverMyHead OverMyHead wrote:

Part is here, Is there a concise set of step by step instructions on this site or elsewhere?


Once you get it trimmed to fit then you need to bolt it down to the flywheel.   There should be a side marked "FLYWHEEL SIDE"   Make sure you get it right.   Oh, and don't over tighten the bolts and break any off. Locktite the bolts if you want.   Small amount of grease or Never Seize on the spline.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2018 at 10:12pm
I got some long 7/16" bolts and cut the heads off and screwed them into the bellhousing to use as guides when sliding the tranny back into place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2018 at 8:55am
Here's a set of instructions for ya

Remove the motor box and the rear floor piece

Disconnect the battery

Remove the starter

Remove the wires from the Neutral Safety Switch

Disconnect the shift and throttle cables

Unbolt the coupling and slide the shaft back as far as it will go

Unhook the water hoses from the transmission cooler, leave the oil lines hooked up and unbolt the cooler bracket from the bellhousing. The cooler will stay with the transmission.

Loosen the pinch bolts on the front motor mounts so the engine can pivot on the mounts. Make sure the bolt is loose and not still tight when the nut is backed off.

Leave the rear mounts hooked to the transmission and remove the mounting fasteners from the stringer/cradle. It's a little heavier this way but it's easier to wrestle the transmission around with the mounts on it.

Unhook the exhaust hoses wherever it's the easiest for you..Depending on the hoses it might be easier for you to remove them as the engine is being raised

Raise the rear of the engine with a bottle jack under an exhaust manifold or use a hoist or whatever other lifting means you have till the engine is about level and block it so it can't fall and ruin your day.

Unbolt the transmission from the bellhousing. You probably have 2 bolts and 4 studs holding it on. Slide it backwards till it;s off the studs and set it on a piece of plywood where the rear floor panel was. To me it's easier this way than taking the bellhousing off at the same time

Now unbolt and remove the bellhousing, don't forget the little bolts holding the splash shield to the bellhousing

Unbolt the old damper

Bolt the new one on

Some people will tell you to tighten the bolts now, some will work thru the starter hole with a crow's foot, u joints etc to tighten them after the transmission is installed and some drill a hole in the bellhousing to tighten the bolts after the transmission is installed. It's your call here on what you want to do.

Grease up the female splines

Bolt the bellhousing and splash shield back on. Some people bolt the bellhousing to the transmission and install the whole thing at once but it's a whole lot easier to wrestle the 125 or so pounds into place when you can slide the transmission on the 4 studs to get the shaft into the splines.

Slide the transmission into place (sounds so easy but you may have to rotate the shaft some to get the splines lined up along with a little lifting. That's why sliding it on the 4 studs is easier. And if you don't have studs, then do what Duane mentioned in the previous post.

From here you're just reassembling in reverse order and if you have corrugated exhaust hoses it's easiest to hook them up again as the engine is being lowered.

And..........don't forget to check the alignment or somebody named Pete will be all over you

I figure somebody will come along and tell you how they did this or that different but this works pretty smoothly with the least amount of wrestling involved..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2018 at 9:21am
This is perfect. Thank you for taking the time to create. I assume I can simply dump out the trans fluid during the process and refill with fresh, rather than sucking it out at a different time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2018 at 9:46am
I'd still suck it out either while it's on the engine or while sitting on the piece of plywood on the floor. It;s the least messy and easiest way to do it. Make sure the suction piece going into the transmission is metal and long enough that you can't lose it in the transmission like some people have done

No oil side lines get undone during the process and the strainer where the return line taps in is much more trouble than it's worth to remove it. It only catches BIG chunks of stuff.

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