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"Blown" Ford 351

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phatsat67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 11:44am
I hope it works perfectly and the rest of the block is ok and you use it for years with that patch ha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 12:50pm
Let's get some pressure on that patch and see how it and the rest of the engine are doing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 2:22pm
Thanks for the poz vibes. Scraping the old gasket was more of a P.I.T.A. then building the patch. I ordered a new gasket set and had it sent to my other spot so I wouldn't be able to test the boat till Sunday. But, I cant wait. Going to Oreilly now and buy another one. More in a few hours..... oh, the patch is JB marine epoxy stick. I pressed a lip in all around the inside perimeter hopefully holding it in place. The stuff has more strength than 20psi which I believe is the pressure in the water jacket. 900 degrees max temp load. I won't be surprised if it doesn't hold. I just wanted to try something before just giving up without any attempt. I can be defeated, but I don't give up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MourningWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 3:16pm
Sent you a PM...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stepper459 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by William777 William777 wrote:

I just wanted to try something before just giving up without any attempt. I can be defeated, but I don't give up.


Sounds like a great experiment. You really appear to have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. I can't wait to see what happens...

A few years back I bought an old Supra for about $1,000 because the engine was making a milkshake after the owner "thought he winterized it right...." but it turned out, the only crack was a tiny one in the intake manifold exactly under the gasket. He was using a garden hose hooked up to the boat to run it on the trailer, and the extra pressure of the house water system must have been enough to break the seal. I'm pretty sure that engine is still running, in a friend's '86 Nautique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by William777 William777 wrote:

            
There is a section of gasket missing in the same spot on the timing cover which could explain the water in the sump.

I don’t see the evidence of how you suspect the Water got in the Oil? That big external hole wouldn’t do it, obviously.

Interesting project but I still think the block is junk- Water is coming in from skmewhere that hasn’t been addressed yet... should have filled it with concrete!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fgroce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 9:20pm
Just a thought, before you turn the key, Right now you very well could have a good crank, rods, cam for a Reverse rotation engine. You run the motor and fill it up with water while it is running you may kill it off. I think prudence would be to save the good parts and use on a new block. I do believe that you will have more than that one hole in the block. Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 11:33pm
I'm sure he's not going to run it that long and hopefully not under a heavy load,he should be fine. It's antifreeze that will tear up bearings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 12:16am
Mr. TRBenj, you're concrete comments are not welcome or amusing, thanks. So I got the whole thing back together and kicked it over and it ran for a few seconds at a time, then the carburetor caught on fire. So tomorrow I'm gonna check it out for stuck floats etc. Last time it ran for the same amount of time and water was pouring out of the spot where the hole was. It didn't just now but I know that's not the big test. Thanks for the constructive comments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 12:36am
Carb likely flooding and timing or firing order off - keep the fire extinguisher handy and try not to die but cranking it over again will usually put out the fire. The flame arrestor wont hurt either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 1:11am
I don't know what's more exciting, the adventures of William or the World Series.

Must be this since I'm on the computer, sorta' half watching the game

Go William go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 4:58am
Tim's comments about concrete are not an insult. He is telling you what many racers do with very high performance blocks.   My cousin is a drag racer with National records, When he built his stroked 454 for his Motor Home he installed Block Rock in the lower part of the block exactly as Tim is telling you to do.
The 496 he built that is making well over 600 pounds of torque and is used in the Motor Home which he also tows with, it is still plugging along just fine 20 years later with the block rock in it.   Some racers believe it adds structure and eliminates some flex in the cylinder walls.
I do not know how much you could use, there is a limit, cooling is certainly needed around your cylinders but most of the heat is created right up top not in the lower bore.
A boat with an unlimited supply of cool water supply could probably run fine with more block rock than any other application so Tim was giving you an option that very well might work. Now that your patch is in there you could fill with block rock and it wont leak out!   The down side, Every shop I knew of that installed that stuff did it on an engine stand where they could flow it in to one bank at a time and tilt the block so it flowed out level to the cylinder heads and cured. Then they do the other side..   Can't do that in the boat too easy and the heads would have to be off. Might be able to flow it in through the Freeze Plug holes for your purpose.   Tilt the entire trailer if you have to.
I hope your patch works as is, that would be pretty cool but the odds are pretty high against it. A lot of words here but needed as Tim helps many people many times in this forum with solid good advice.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:08am
More on block filler. Read the testimonials
HardBlok
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:11am
I learned something new as well. I never heard of the stuff. I wonder how hot they let them run?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:21am
Originally posted by William777 William777 wrote:

Mr. TRBenj, you're concrete comments are not welcome or amusing,   

Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Tim's comments about concrete are not an insult. He is telling you what many racers do with very high performance blocks.   My cousin is a drag racer with National records,

Mark,
I happen to agree with William. He's not building a high performance race engine and Tim said "filled with concrete" and not Hard Blok.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:22am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

I wonder how hot they let them run?


Did you read the circle track racers testimonial???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:25am
Yes, but he did not say anything about temps. Why wouldn't they run hotter?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

I wonder how hot they let them run?


Did you read the circle track racers testimonial???

Duane,
I want you to take that beautiful engine you built, Hard Blok it, run the boat as if you are on a circle track for a summer and then get back to us with results.   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:38am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Duane,I want you to take that beautiful engine you built, Hard Blok it, run the boat as if you are on a circle track for a summer and then get back to us with results.   


Pete, in your old age you have mistaken me for KEN    He is the only one that does emperical testing here
.   
Per their site:     "Order the TALL FILL Unit for 350 cubic inch and larger blocks. Order the SHORT FILL Unit for circle track and street rod applications."

Personally I don't endorse or recommend the stuff. Probably more 392" Hemi blocks left laying around with it in it than not.

edit: thanks for the accolades on my engine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:41am
It does sound like it has potential for a repair for some cracked blocks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:45am
Well, I just watched a Moroso video on the hard block filler and now I apologize Tim who suggested it. I was just in from putting it all back together, which included three trips to Oreillys, some modifications to the gaskets to make them fit, two pretty cut up hands and a flaming carburetor so my nerves were shot. Then I read, you should have filled it with cement.    But now I see. It's actually a thing to do. I could still do that, but I don't think it would be a good idea if I don't know if the block is cracked in other places? I suppose that stuff wouldn't be able to flow through a crack, but maybe there's another hole?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 10:50am
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Duane,I want you to take that beautiful engine you built, Hard Blok it, run the boat as if you are on a circle track for a summer and then get back to us with results.   


Pete, in your old age you have mistaken me for KEN    He is the only one that does emperical testing here

No Duane. Ken hasn't commented on the Hard Blok. You were the one that brought up the testimonials so I feel you can do the testing on your engine.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 11:03am
Get some Coffee guys.

Like was said above, Backfiring and flaming through the carb could be related to too early timing (if it is backfiring), Firing order off, Flooding. If you don't see any fuel pouring from the boosters/J vent tubes while running or after shutting off then the floats/needle and seats are probably ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 2:07pm
I have never used the block rock in an engine I built but I have seen several being assembled.   Heat is created in the combustion chamber and that area is still open to cooling. The lower cylinder area is what would be filled with the block rock or hard blok.
We all know this old 351W is not a racer and the only reason to consider hard blok would be a band aid in this case to plug the leaks and it might work.   As stated a boat has an unlimited supply of cool water so it can stay cool much easier than a automobile.
I think most blocks that crack from freezing crack about midway up the block and I don't know if you could fill the block that high safely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 2:38pm
A rock blocked engine would be very hard to drain water out during winterization.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 2:41pm
Just think of it as extra ballast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2017 at 4:22pm
I watched a video of a guy doing the block rock thing and he inserted a tube from the top of the block through the factory drain hole which was removed after the stuff (can't bring myself to say cement in an engine) set., so the factory drains could still be used. As far as my saga goes, I got the engine running and it purrs; the plug held as long as the engine ran, a little over five minutes. On the slightly downside, my engine seems to be a very big and powerful cappuccino maker . The froth is in both valve covers so I'm going in next week. I'm, of course, hoping for blown head gaskets. Oh, BTW, the fire, I caused, because I was spraying starting fluid in a carburetor with stuck butterfly valves. I read about using that stuff AFTER I started the fire and see now that I was making a bomb. Rookie that I am. So I cleaned the carb and it's fine now. It will be the first time I've done a head gasket. I've done a timing chain on a duel cam Miata but that's the extent of my deep engine experience. I'm actually stoked about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2017 at 4:56pm
Set up a shelf spanning the gunnel so you have a handy place to set tools. Also, a step ladder might be kinder on your legs than stepping up on the trailer 100s of times.

Good luck, hope it needs gaskets only.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2017 at 5:38pm
I think your chances of the problem being a head gasket are about as good as Pete's chances of winning the lottery and me being mauled by a grizzly on the same day.

Freeze damage isn't very likely to mess up a head gasket without also damaging the block or the head

When you take the intake manifold off, look in the lifter gallery area and you might see a big crack right in that area since that's the wall of the water jacket. inside the engine

Your patch did it's job and let you run the engine to show that there's another leak.

I think your luck has run out, maybe I'll be wrong ...............maybe not


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2017 at 6:11pm
Time for more face cream and or Preparation H!!


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