Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - "Blown" Ford 351
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

"Blown" Ford 351

 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <1234 14>
Author
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2017 at 8:12pm
Here are your pictures

You must have a Commander engine because a PCM would have the raw water pump right in that area.

That leak looks like it on the timing cover where it bolts to the front of the engine.

That's a water passage thru the cover from the circulating pump to the block

If it's a gasket leak you're getting luckier maybe.

Water can get into the oil thru the timing cover too.



Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2017 at 9:09pm
William,
Congratulations. You are making some progress. Hopefully the leak is simple and you'll have that engine running soon.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2017 at 9:40pm
Here's a picture of the backside of the timing cover and you see one water passage. It's the thumb sized hole about 2 inches below my thumb

If the gasket is bad you can leak water externally like you're seeing and you can leak water into the timing chain area too and it's a real easy path to the oil sump from there. With the cover removed you can look down into the front of the sump.

Hopefully just a gasket issue and no cracks

To remove the cover and replace the gasket you can get a timing chain gasket set pretty cheap

I'd replace the timing chain at the same time while the cover is off.

Back in 78 they were using nylon coated aluminum gears that liked to throw chunks of nylon off and make for some erratic camshaft timing
Back to Top
William777 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-21-2017
Location: Northern CA
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2017 at 10:00pm
Thats's a great shot of the cover. Looks exactly like the spot the water is coming from, How do you post the pictures? I looked at Amazon for a gasket set and saw Windsor V8 and Cleveland but no Commander? The engine sounded AMAZING for the 10 seconds it ran. I also see many different brands for timing chains. Recommendations? And thank you all! PS. The starter was not assembled incorrectly as well as totally dirty inside. The PO or whoever had the spring that returns the bendix on the axle the bendix slides on.
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
Back to Top
William777 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-21-2017
Location: Northern CA
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2017 at 10:02pm
Meant to say the starter was incorrectly assembled.
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2017 at 11:10pm
It's a 351 Windsor

Pleasurecraft (PCM) or Commander are 2 of the companies that marinized the 351W.

There are others also.

Regular automotive chain and gears. They get replaced as a set.

Plenty of brands from your local parts places or thru the internet.

Either silent or double roller chain are reasonably priced.

I think in the Common Qestions section somebody explains how to post pictures or you can do a search here on CCF and find some good explanations.
Back to Top
William777 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-21-2017
Location: Northern CA
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 12:40am
This is a big ole hole in the block me thinks. I have to source a harmonic balancer removal doodad and then take a closer look.
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3582
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 4:38am
That is broken and looks like it has leaked for a while.
Cloyes is a well known Timing Set manufacturer.   
Fel-Pro is the most trusted name for the Gaskets.

There is a company called Lock n Stitch that has been fixing blocks and heads for years with a proven process.   If you have access and can drill holes into the cracked area Lock n Stitch products will pull the broken parts back together and permanently seal it.
They were headquartered in Turlock CA.
If you don't have access to drill and install the lock n stitch the engine will need to come out.   At that point it might be cheaper to find a donor block replacement.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 7:25am
I'm having a hard time visualizing where the crack is. Is it in the cover or block?


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:37am
I'm having a hard time figuring out the picture too
Back to Top
scootdogydog View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November-03-2013
Location: Central MA
Status: Offline
Points: 404
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scootdogydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:44am
tough to decipher, but I believe the crack that is being shown is in the block just aft of the timing cover.
1999 Python
1980 Ski Tique
1968 Mustang WIP
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 10:11am
Looks to me as though the pic is upside down and behind the alternator
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
phatsat67 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: March-13-2006
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 6147
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 10:33am
Yep, if it was right side up it would be looking at the timing cover from the front and the crack is on the front face of the block just to the left of the timing cover above the "Marine only" ear cast into the left side for the RWP mounting pcm style.
Back to Top
75 Tique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: August-12-2004
Location: Seven Lakes, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 6097
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 11:17am
Hmmm   Doesnt help me much.

_____________
“So, how was your weekend?”
“Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.”
Back to Top
phatsat67 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: March-13-2006
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 6147
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 11:40am
That's not right side up. Now the right hand side of the photo is "UP".
Everyone besides PCM put the alternator on the drivers side of the motor.
Back to Top
scootdogydog View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November-03-2013
Location: Central MA
Status: Offline
Points: 404
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scootdogydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 12:01pm
Pete will soon chime in and advise you to JB-weld that crack and see if there is an internal crack or not.

But, I wouldn't be concerned about an external crack there. However, it might be a clue that there is an internal crack that would have caused your milky oil.
1999 Python
1980 Ski Tique
1968 Mustang WIP
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 12:40pm
here it is bottom side down for Zach

Back to Top
William777 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-21-2017
Location: Northern CA
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 1:10pm
     Here's a wider angle. Don't know how the image got flipped. Anyway, I'll need that balancer off to see the extent of the damage. Is JB welding it and rechecking a bad idea? I've seen the LockNStitch stuff on Jay Leno's classic car site and I like it. I'm off to the city to work for a few days then back at it on Sunday. And again, really appreciate the interest and help.
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
Back to Top
William777 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-21-2017
Location: Northern CA
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 1:12pm
Balancer off so I can remove the timing cover to see the damage.
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 2:38pm
It's my "guess" that there are other issues also. Crack like that don't just happen. There is a reason. Possibly more problems that have not come to light yet. You may be block shopping.    JMO
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
GottaSki View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: April-21-2005
Location: NE CT
Status: Offline
Points: 3327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 2:43pm
I concur, that engine is fragged, i wouldn't waste a moment with it.
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

River Rat to Mole
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 2:54pm
Out of curiosity where was the freeze plug that was popped in relation to the crack you have?

I'd still get it running on the hose for a while like 10 minutes or so and let that crack in the block leak and see how the water in the oil situation is.

But in the last picture, it looks like you already have the circulating pump off of the timing cover so maybe you'll want to continue with getting the timing cover off

Not looking to promising at all right now though, I figure there's at the least a new block in your future
Back to Top
William777 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-21-2017
Location: Northern CA
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:14pm
            
If you're going to have a hole in your block, have a big one! There is a section of gasket missing in the same spot on the timing cover which could explain the water in the sump. There is a machine shop with an expert welder with some special welder that welds cast metal? Not sure what it all means yet.
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
Back to Top
William777 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-21-2017
Location: Northern CA
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:21pm
Also the casting plug the blew was the center one on the same side as the hole. Does that say something?
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by William777 William777 wrote:

Does that say something?


Yea, it says get another block.
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:50pm
The smart thing would be to get another block or engine.

If you want to keep the engine as a reverse rotation engine you'll need a 351W block with a 2 piece rear main seal so you can use the reverse rotation crank.you have now.

Lots of things to think about, lots of different routes you could go but every one of those probably should include a new block and no repair jobs on the one you have

You may have other internal cracks or big holes you can't see.

By the way that's a nice picture of the nylon coated cam gear that was original back then.

It looks to have all of it's teeth and in good shape too.

Probably means the engine doesn't have too many hours on it.

You'll probably get lots of suggestions on what to do, so take your time, decide what you're comfortable spending and what engine work you're comfortable doing and remember again, you're working with a reverse rotation engine.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Yea, it says get another block.

I have to agree that the most logical is a new block.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
William777 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-21-2017
Location: Northern CA
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2017 at 10:04pm
I'm going to repair this block with my skills and Belzona 1111.
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3582
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2017 at 3:57am
I have never seen one break where yours broke. They usually break in the middle along the sides.   I am betting if that part broke due to freeze you have other fractures in other places.   Find a new block. Sorry.
Back to Top
MechGaT View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March-09-2015
Location: Chattanooga
Status: Offline
Points: 271
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MechGaT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2017 at 10:27pm
Besides the block, it's a nice looking Martinique.
'92 Sport Nautique
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <1234 14>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC