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1988 SN Resto

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    Posted: April-16-2017 at 12:24pm
Happy Easter all,

I have been meaning to write this post for some time, so here goes.

Last August I became the proud owner of an 88' SN. I am excited to have joined the boat owning family (this is my first boat). However, there a few pressing issues I want to get help sorting before a hard summer of operation. There are some pictures in the diary page linked in my profile, and I will post more here about some of the specific issues I've found.

The upholstery and floor are questionable at best, but I believe I can get one last summer out of them before I gear up for that daunting task. Also I need to get a cover ordered so that I can protect those sorts of investments (PO couldn't locate the cover he had...), I've put a call out to Angola, but was wondering if anyone here had experience with a custom tower. They asked me to measure along the rub rail to the center locations. Does this mean start at the metal clamp that secures the rail in the rear? What about compensating for the 'angle' that the tower legs take.. I am sure the cover will be a bit above the deck, meaning the center of the leg base and the center of the leg can be very different things. Any advice here?

For the time being there are plenty of other things I need to tackle. Firstly, the boat runs well. Starts up easily and smoothly, but needs some 'warm-up' time before it will idle well. Does this sound normal or is my carb not dialed correctly (idle RPM in gear is roughly 600 but in neutral its approximately 1100)?

Also, on one of the last cruises I took towards the end of last year the hour meter stopped ticking. I'm relatively electrical minded but wanted to get some direction before I went probing away in that nest of wires. What's the best way to sort through the dash wiring and find out what runs to what? I've looked at the wiring diagram but still am not sure how I might identify what has failed.

Now some of the more pressing issues.
My port heads have some cracking that is rather concerning to my untrained eye, and that I think may be having ill effects already. I certainly don't want to ruin what I've got, so I am looking for a 'don't run until those are replaced' or a 'keep an eye on them but it should be ok'. Also in these same images you can see the risers aren't looking their best, but I cannot tell if its just the paint playing tricks on me or if I have corrosion starting. Is this something I could clean up with out taking them off?



I changed the oil this spring and now I have a maxed out oil pressure gauge. The boat still seems to run appropriately (ran for almost an hour on the lake the evening I noticed the high pressure. What sort of signs would there be if it was a true pressure issue and not a gauge/wiring issue? I don't recall for certain but I don't believe this was the case last year. It goes straight to max pressure right at start-up, not a slow build or anything like that.   Any ideas? Change the oil again and add less? Check the sender unit? Remember the cracks in the heads, could they have anything to do with this?

Lastly, and I don't have great pictures of this just yet, will get some soon, my swim platform brackets are very loose on the hull side. It seems like all 4 'lower' screws have stripped and some the higher nuts are hand loose as well. What is the recommended way to sure up a hull fitting? I've read on here a bit about 3M adhesives, one 4xxx for more 'temporary' and one 5xxx for more 'permanent' uses. Or should I be thinking about glass repair and redrilling? I have not taken the platform off to truly assess the damage yet.

I have been perusing the site but these are things I feel I didn't see great advice for. If there are already threads that may help me, feel free to direct me there, I am sure I have overlooked some.

I know I've asked a lot here, but no need to answer every question at once! I'll take any tidbit I can get.

Thanks again, and happy skiing,

~Evan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 1:50pm
Hi EA - I would put the tower acquisition on hold until you sort out functional isses.

Don't worry about cracks for now, unless liquid is squirting out.

As for oil pressure, check the connection at the sender, it may be loose or corroded.   What ever the problem is, it was not caused by your oil change.

I would take the platform off & fix the loose attachment screws right away, as this presents a safety hazard if they were to fail entirely.

Not sure what is wrong, but my guess is the screws are stripped going into hull.   One fix is to pack epoxy resin, mixed with glass fibers, into the holes, then redrill. You might want to recondition the platform with teak oil while it is off.

Good luck & Happy Easter

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EArnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:09pm
Thanks Chris,

The tower is already on the boat, it is the cover I'm trying to work out ordering...

The sender 'bolt' is loose and turns with the nut when I was trying to loosen it to take off the cable connector, I am guessing this is a sign its broken off internally?

I thought that might be the case for the swim platform. With regards to the hardware, were the holes drilled small and the screws actually 'biting' into the hull or were there bolts/hardware on the backside as well?

~Evan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 8:54pm
Sounds like you need a new sensor. Make sure you get the right ohm range, there are several versions out there.

On mine, the platform was attached with lag screws, no nut on the back side, at least the bottom ones (which were the ones stripped). I had to patch several holes too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 10:51am
Evan,
Before you get a pressure sender throwing a part at the problem, get the VOM out and do some testing. Test the sender without the engine running and then with it running. The sender should show 50 ohms at 45 PSI, and for reference, 100 ohms at 90 PSI. You should also ground the sender wire to the gauge and see what happens. Teeing a mechanical gauge into the sender port will also give you an idea of what's going on.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 11:17am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Evan,Before you get a pressure sender throwing a part at the problem, get the VOM out and do some testing. Test the sender without the engine running and then with it running. The sender should show 50 ohms at 45 PSI, and for reference, 100 ohms at 90 PSI. You should also ground the sender wire to the gauge and see what happens. Teeing a mechanical gauge into the sender port will also give you an idea of what's going on.


I replaced my sender for $7. 00 with free shipping. It obviously has a problem when the stud spins internally. Yours is 30 years old. If you don't have a known pressure to check the ohm reading to then you have nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bb12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 11:28am
EA, as for the oil pressure sender- You can try this: with the key in the ON position take the wire off and ground it to the engine block. If it pegs, the wire and gauge are working and it's likely the sender. Hook up a mechanical gauge also to confirm.

Swim platform bracket holes will likely need to be epoxied and redrilled. If you want to reinforce the top two bolts from inside with a nut, that will require removing the fuel tank for access.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Evan,Before you get a pressure sender throwing a part at the problem, get the VOM out and do some testing. Test the sender without the engine running and then with it running. The sender should show 50 ohms at 45 PSI, and for reference, 100 ohms at 90 PSI. You should also ground the sender wire to the gauge and see what happens. Teeing a mechanical gauge into the sender port will also give you an idea of what's going on.


I replaced my sender for $7. 00 with free shipping. It obviously has a problem when the stud spins internally. Yours is 30 years old. If you don't have a known pressure to check the ohm reading to then you have nothing.

Duane,
How do you know the sender has a problem without getting an Ohm reading? So what it's 30 years old. I have a 63 year old and a 53 year old and they both work great!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 11:56am
Duane,
How do you know the sender has a problem without getting an Ohm reading? So what it's 30 years old. I have a 63 year old and a 53 year old and they both work great!! [/QUOTE]

Whatever.    Without removing the sender and putting it on a pressure stand AND THEN checking resistance against known values then you are guessing.
BTW Senders rarely go bad sitting on trailers lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EArnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2017 at 11:52pm
Thank you all for the discussion...

I certainly intend on at least testing via the 'grounding' method to be sure that my wire-gauge connection is not at fault, even though it seems clear that the sender is at least part to blame. From whats been said - it will ping back to zero when grounded and back to max pressure when off (as is the current state since the circuit is broken somewhere?) Now, whose got a tip for removing the nut since the threaded piece is spinning freely with it? I tried pliers and couldn't get it moving.

Also, Duane, any chance you remember your source?? Cheapest I've seen is in the $30.00 range, certainly not expensive but also not $7.00!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2017 at 6:56am
Originally posted by EArnold EArnold wrote:

Also, Duane, any chance you remember your source?? Cheapest I've seen is in the $30.00 range, certainly not expensive but also not $7.00!


Pull yours out and see if there are any pt#'s on it. E-bay has thousands of senders. You can probably match it up there. Guessing you will have to cut the wire off and attach new terminal end.

Reading back, no one has commented on the hour meter issue. Take a set of test leads and hook up to the back of the meter with + and - leads that are hooked a known battery source. That will "Hot Wire" the meter. If it is working you will hear it click every few seconds ( 10 or so). Harbor Freight has the test leads with alligator clips and also an ice pick shaped test light. Both items handy for trouble shooting. Oh yea, they have VOM's also.   Duane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2017 at 9:15am
Originally posted by EArnold EArnold wrote:

Thank you all for the discussion...

I certainly intend on at least testing via the 'grounding' method to be sure that my wire-gauge connection is not at fault, even though it seems clear that the sender is at least part to blame. From whats been said - it will ping back to zero when grounded and back to max pressure when off (as is the current state since the circuit is broken somewhere?) Now, whose got a tip for removing the nut since the threaded piece is spinning freely with it? I tried pliers and couldn't get it moving.

Also, Duane, any chance you remember your source?? Cheapest I've seen is in the $30.00 range, certainly not expensive but also not $7.00!



You got it backwards on your gauge grounding Read what BB12 said again.

Ground the wire, it should peg high

Remove it from ground (open circuit) and it should peg low

This tells you the wiring to the gauge and the gauge itself are good

Maybe Pete will explain where his ohm reading for various pressures came from.other than them being some numbers he dreamed up. since he doesn't know the brand or range of your gauge

You really need to know the range of your gauge like say 0-80 psi as an example to come up with a compatible sending unit like SNObsessed mentioned earlier or get a part number like Duane said

Also like Duane said if the center stud rotates you might as well just replace the sender

One other thing, you mentioned risers in your first post and had pictures. There aren't any risers in those pictures. What you're showing is the bottom of the exhaust manifolds where they bolt to the heads. The risers are on top of the manifolds assuming you have PCM manifolds and they connect to the rubber exhaust hose.

The inlet flanges rust pretty easily since the paint burns off from exhaust heat right there before the exhaust enters the water jacketed part of the manifolds.

As far as cracked heads, I had a hard time seeing what you're describing in the pictures but...............they never get better.

If they're small external leaks you can live with them till they get worse or some people have had good luck with epoxy depending on leak location
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2017 at 9:40am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Evan,
Before you get a pressure sender throwing a part at the problem, get the VOM out and do some testing. Test the sender without the engine running and then with it running. The sender should show 50 ohms at 45 PSI, and for reference, 100 ohms at 90 PSI. You should also ground the sender wire to the gauge and see what happens. Teeing a mechanical gauge into the sender port will also give you an idea of what's going on.


Pete

How about explaining where these numbers come from ?

They make no sense at all

Must be from a 63 year old gauge that works backwards from anything halfway modern
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EArnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2017 at 2:14pm
Alright I got the sending unit off and did the 'ping test' and that checked out, KENO you were correct, I was backwards. So I am looking for a replacement. Naturally, there are no part numbers or even brand names on the old unit (all it says is assembled in Mexico)

I have found a few that look VERY similar but you all have me concerned with ohm range and compatibility, yet few that I've found have specific PSI or ohm ratings. They also don't detail the threading size very well, the attachment side of mine appears to be a 1/2"-18 or 20. Some of them that include a thread size mention very small diameters that I believe are referring to the terminal end... its hard to say

Here is a picture of the one that came off the boat

Now here are a few links,

https://www.amazon.com/Sierra-18-5899-Oil-Pressure-Sender/dp/B000FQ79JO/ref=pd_sbs_263_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000FQ79JO&pd_rd_r=0WAJ1EHAEA00VDWR8S0C&pd_rd_w=Po8px&pd_rd_wg=JMaFj&psc=1&refRID=0WAJ1EHAEA00VDWR8S0C - 80 PSI but a 1/8" - 27 thread, could this work?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-ps60 - 60 PSI (not 80 like my gauge) hard to say the dimensions of the threads

Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EArnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2017 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:



Reading back, no one has commented on the hour meter issue. Take a set of test leads and hook up to the back of the meter with + and - leads that are hooked a known battery source. That will "Hot Wire" the meter. If it is working you will hear it click every few seconds ( 10 or so). Harbor Freight has the test leads with alligator clips and also an ice pick shaped test light. Both items handy for trouble shooting. Oh yea, they have VOM's also.   Duane


Pardon the electrical novice: 'Known battery source'... the boat battery itself or a smaller battery? Does it need to be 12 volts? This may help me test my horn as well so I'd like to learn more. The VOM I have from school but I admit I am no expert on these things. I will pick up one of those test lights, they seem handy for sure.

~Evan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2017 at 2:43pm
Yep, just order from a pcm dealer and you'll be good to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2017 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by EArnold EArnold wrote:

Alright I got the sending unit off and did the 'ping test' and that checked out, KENO you were correct, I was backwards. So I am looking for a replacement. Naturally, there are no part numbers or even brand names on the old unit (all it says is assembled in Mexico)

I have found a few that look VERY similar but you all have me concerned with ohm range and compatibility, yet few that I've found have specific PSI or ohm ratings. They also don't detail the threading size very well, the attachment side of mine appears to be a 1/2"-18 or 20. Some of them that include a thread size mention very small diameters that I believe are referring to the terminal end... its hard to say

Here is a picture of the one that came off the boat

Now here are a few links,

https://www.amazon.com/Sierra-18-5899-Oil-Pressure-Sender/dp/B000FQ79JO/ref=pd_sbs_263_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000FQ79JO&pd_rd_r=0WAJ1EHAEA00VDWR8S0C&pd_rd_w=Po8px&pd_rd_wg=JMaFj&psc=1&refRID=0WAJ1EHAEA00VDWR8S0C - 80 PSI but a 1/8" - 27 thread, could this work?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-ps60 - 60 PSI (not 80 like my gauge) hard to say the dimensions of the threads

Thoughts?


I think what you're showing as your old one has 1/4 inch pipe threads judging by the picture.

Your linked one from Sierra being the right range would work if you use a 1/4 to 1/8 pipe thread reducer

The one Scootdoggydog linked should screw right in with no other parts needed at all and is a PCM replacement part

As far as your hour meter question just run jumpers to it from 12 volts in the boat from the boat battery or find 12volts under the dash like at the ignition switch.

One to the positive on the meter from 12v and one to ground from the negative connection on the meter. If it clicks every 1/100th of an hour you'll hear/see it move in 36 seconds
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2017 at 3:06pm
I will add this..for your Horn...first check connections under your dash...also check the voltage going to your horn as well. My horn in my 93 did not work either last year, and I thought the horn was shot. But after purchasing a new Marine starting battery, and running new heavier gauge hot and ground wires to my dash, adding a new ground block under the dash and cleaning up the contacts the horn works just fine now and I have gauges all working correctly. I would highly suggest this easy upgrade to your dash..you'll be happy in the long run.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EArnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2017 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by scootdogydog scootdogydog wrote:

nautique parts


Now I feel dumb, I promise that's where I went looking first, I was looking in 'Lubirication-Oil-Oil Pumps' not 'gauges'... Thanks for the link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EArnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-03-2017 at 11:17pm
So the sending unit came in and was indeed the wrong size, so I ordered a new 'extension' piece that was 1/4" on both sides. I figured it was a good idea to switch to the correct unit so if it ever fails again I know I can order from nautique parts.

I've also finally had the time to get under the dash with the volt meter and test the hour meter and clock. As suggested, I applied direct voltage from the battery and got nothing. Just to be sure, I checked the voltage with the key in the second position and both were getting good voltage there as well (11.5+ volts). This means the gauges themselves have failed, yes? Is there something else I could be missing?

Same story on the horn, applied direct voltage and got nothing and checked the voltage from the appropriate wires (key in the ignition) and got a good voltage reading, so again... bad horn? From what I've found, the horn is a pain to get to, so my first thought is to replace it with top mounted 'trumpets' as opposed to fighting to get to the original. Thoughts on this? Anyone who has done a horn replacement before, I'd love your thoughts on its difficulty.

Flyweed mentions cleaning up the grounding, could this be an issue even with good voltage readings at each location?

Thanks again everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2017 at 7:34am
Originally posted by EArnold EArnold wrote:

I've also finally had the time to get under the dash with the volt meter and test the hour meter and clock. As suggested, I applied direct voltage from the battery and got nothing. Just to be sure, I checked the voltage with the key in the second position and both were getting good voltage there as well (11.5+ volts). This means the gauges themselves have failed, yes? Is there something else I could be missing?Same story on the horn, applied direct voltage and got nothing and checked the voltage from the appropriate wires (key in the ignition) and got a good voltage reading, so again... bad horn?
Thanks again everyone.


Make sure you do your voltage tests with the positive and negative leads directly on the gauge, not a separate ground. The ground side of the gauges could be faulty.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2017 at 7:39am
Evan,
I agree with Duane. With grounds daisy chained and multiple gauges not working, a bad ground is likely. Where did you read the ground from? Do your gauge lights work?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2017 at 10:06am
Agree with the bad ground hypothesis.

What are the chances that multiple components fail at same time?
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