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1997 Ski Nautique restoration - Advice please!

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Goldcup101 View Drop Down
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    Posted: April-14-2017 at 11:56am
Hi all, we're restoring a Masters Green Ski Nautique bubble back with the 285hp HO engine. The upholstery is finished and we're just finishing off the engine before getting stuck into the hull.

We've come across a few areas where some advice would be very welcome and no doubt many of you will have owned or worked on one of these boats or engines in the past.

Used to look like this:







Now looks like this:





A few questions:

I think we've routed the transmission cable the wrong side of the exhaust header so will change that unless I'm mistaken.

Should the blower hose be routed as shown or should it be underneath the exhaust running along the bottom of the hull? (it was mssing when we bought the boat)

Tha tranmission had been replaced less than 50 hours before we bought the boat. Does the hose routing and cooler location look correct? Same for water strainer?

It is a high hour engine (1800) so we did a total top end rebuild. It turned out to be in great shape; no wear ridge in the bores, no signs of wear anywhere else, cross hatching visible in the bores etc which makes us think it has been rebored recently. Do these pistons look original to you guys? I expected the piston heads to look different with ellipses for valve clearance rather than the rectangular cut outs.



The floor panel aft of the engine is a bit spongy and sags slightly when stepped on. Does anyone have a suggestion for reinforcement? Should it have had some sort of original support between the panel and the hull anyway?

I've got a new throttle cable to install. I'm aware that I need to somehow attach it to the old one and pull it through but any additional tips & advice would be great!

How do I replace the transmission oil? Can you just suck it out as with the engine oil or is there a different method? Anyone know the spec for the transmission oil?

The engine ran (roughly) when we got the boat and it turned out that the carb was jammed solid. No idea how it ran at all! Carb now completely rebuilt but can't find a guide online on how to set it up now. Is there a guide somewhere for this?

Any advice gratefully received! Thanks guys!
Calum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2017 at 12:11pm
Nice work! Experts will be by to help with some of the more technical things but here's what I can tell you at the moment....

Trans cable should come up in front of the engine behind the alternator, over the intake and then down to the trans shifter.

I would put the blower hose under the exhaust. Less likely to get smashed by the engine cover.

Trans cooler doesn't look correct but might work. Strainer is probably going to hit the rear floor panel.

You can extract the trans fluid. Just replace as much as you extracted. Be sure to use Dextron-III when you replace the fluid.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2017 at 5:51pm
Great job getting her into shape! Here is the best picture I could find of how the oil cooler and hoses are mounted. A hose connects to the outlet of the cooler and runs up to the intake of the raw water pump. When you pull off the hose to the pump to winterize,the cooler being upright drains easily. The intake hose into the cooler could be run better on this one though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2017 at 6:28pm
Thanks guys, I wasn't sure the trans cooler was right even though it looked neat enough.

I'll re-route the shift cable, it has obviously been incorrectly routed for a long time, notwithstanding my putting it the wrong side of the exhaust!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2017 at 10:49pm
very nice looking job. I about died when I saw that 1st picture of the rear seat base....who would do that?


john
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 9:03am
Makes you wonder doesn't it? The boat was originally ordered without the back seat and though I tried, I couldn't find one anywhere so had to have one built but it's turned out well and close to the original design.

In the past, someone lashed up this effort using that most well known of materials, ideal for marine applications - 4" x 2" untreated timber.

When it came out it looked pretty bad:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 12:04am
hmmm....no back seat? School or camp boat maybe.

very nice job on the new back seat tho...looks original.

john
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 6:22am
Yes, I know the history of the boat and have the original factory build sheets. It was supplied new to a Waterski Centre in England (Thorpe Park) which is where it built most if its hours. I'm happy with that as I know it will have been well maintained in those years - the centre had a good reputation and waterski schools tend to look after their boats. I'm guessing the Perfect Pass would have been fitted there but have no evidence of that, I just know PP wasn't fitted at the factory. PP may not even have been an option in 1997.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 1:15am
yup..school boat. You are gonna love it. Pretty sure no PP in '97.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 5:48pm
Update:

Floor panel now reinforced
Have figured out routing for blower and trans cable (thanks guys)
Still interested to see if anyone knows if those pistons are orginal or replacement?
Any advice on easiest way to replace the transmission oil?

Latest issue; screen needs to come off for painting. I'm terrified of breaking the glass (I'd never find a replacement panel) so any guidance on how to safely remove the screen and surround would be much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 6:02pm
those dished pistons are what i found when i opened my engine...
pretty sure they are standard to the engine build
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 6:03pm
nice job on the upholstery!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 7:20pm
for transmission oil..best way is to get a suction/siphon type of device, and suck it out through the dipstick hole. I used a brake bleeder tool, as the hose is small enough to fit all the way down to the bottom of the transmission case.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 6:47am
Hi all, a new issue - calling all experts!

Before rebuild the engine ran - badly. It wouldn't idle and ran rough, possibly not on all cylinders. Odd backfire through the carb.

Post rebuild, same problem. Investigation reveals the ignition sequence was 8-1-2-7-3-6-5-4.
On a 97 PCM HO with 1.23 transmission, a quick search on CCW shows it should be 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.

I've changed all the leads round to reflect the correct firing order but now, at TDC when the rotor arm should approx point at the No 1, it actually points about 180 degs out at approx No 5 or 6. Unsurprisingly, it isn't running! I'm wondering whether someone has just installed the distributor wrong in the past and changed the timing/firing order to suit?

Currently trying to get the dist out to turn it but would welcome any suggestions for why it was all screwy to start with and how best to fix it! As a side issue, the starter isn't turning the engine particularly well, sort of inconsistent cranking speed as though the voltage is changing. Probably a separate issue to the one above. More problems. I hate electrics!
Thanks in advance! Calum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote winniskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 7:24am
Please explain what you did to reinforce floor panel. Mine is starting to feel spongy in spots.
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 7:27am
Update: Left the dist in position and just chnaged the leads round so that when No 1 piston is at TDC, the rotor is pointing at No 1 plug lead. Then arranged rest of leads anti-clockwise in order 3-7-2-6-5-4-8.

Engine won't start and at least 1 pretty obvious backfire out of an exhaust port.

It's got me beat - any suggestions please?.

To be sure, the 1997 351w engine rotates LH (counter-clockwise) looking from rear, the dist rotates counter-clockwise and the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. Have I got this right? If so, I just cannot work out why it isn't running and why there's a backfire? Carb has been rebuilt but even if that was bad, there wouldn't be a backfire surely?

(For floor panel - cut out broken foam, glassed in a section of sealed marine ply then put a reinforcement beam in the floor of the boat between the stringers. Seems to work so far!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 7:29am
Calum,
There's no need to remove the distributor to correct the firing order, just reposition the plug wires on the cap. Start with making sure the #1 cylinder is TDC on the compression stroke then place the #1 wire in the cap closest to where the rotor is pointing. From there, follow the firing order with the other wires.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 7:54am
Posts crossed there but have done exactly as you suggested. Won't start and a backfire evident (sounds like inlet port rather than exhaust). It started yesterday with the screwy ignition sequence but ran rough so that suggests the fuel side is ok and that this is a timing/firing order problem. I just cannot fathom how, if I've got the sequence correct and have checked No 1 piston at TDC when rotor points at No1, how there can be an issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 8:09am
Are you sure you're starting with the #1 at the compression stroke? Also, with the reduction trans, your engine should be a standard and not a reverse rotation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Goldcup101 Goldcup101 wrote:

To be sure, the 1997 351w engine rotates LH (counter-clockwise) looking from rear, the dist rotates counter-clockwise and the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. Have I got this right?

This firing order should be correct. Is the starter cranking the engine the correct direction?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 8:18am
And does a standard rotate anti-clockwise from the rear?

Noticed that yesterdays firing order was correct apart from 2 and 3 being transposed. That could explain the rough running yesterday so configured it the same as yesterday but changed the 2 and 3 leads around. Fired right up and sounds smooth. Bizarrely, the rotor doesn't seem to point at No 1 when No pistion is at TDC. Is that possible? It has been rebored before we got the boat so the engine has been in bits before - could something have been put in incoorectly before? It's certainly running now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 8:19am
Engine definitely cranking anti-clockwise when viewed from rear. It's running now but I'm at a loss to explain why? I hate not understanding things!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 8:21am
Calum,
Yes, a standard rotation engine turns counterclockwise when looking at it from the rear. Now that it's running, get the timing light hooked up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 8:51am
It's looking as though when the flywheel was indicating TDC, the No 1 piston, though at TDC, was actually on its exhaust stroke rather than compression stroke. Maybe camshaft was installed 180 degs out on a previous engine rebuild. One thing is for sure, everything seems 180 degs out yet it's running smoothly. Go figure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 9:07am
Good that it's running now but if you're looking for an explanation about the rotor not pointing at #1 terminal on the cap I'll throw this out there.

A couple of times Pete has mentioned getting the engine so that #1 cylinder was at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke.

You mention the rotor pointing at #6 terminal on the cap when you did this.

That would be because you had the engine rotated so that #1 was at TDC on the EXHAUST stroke. When #1 is at TDC on the exhaust stroke, #6 is at TDC on the compression stroke and the rotor is pointing at #6 terminal on the cap. (you're firing 180 degrees out)

When you rotate the engine by hand to get the timing pointer lined up with the TDC mark you/ve got a 50/50 chance of getting it right unless you do something like put your thumb over the #1 plug hole so you feel the compression as you're rotating it to TDC. If you don't feel any compression then you're at TDC on the compression stroke.

You could also put a little rag lightly in the hole and let the compression blow it out to show that you're on the compression stroke

Maybe you did this, but I don't see anywhere where you said it

Sounds like it's running now so that's a good thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 9:11am
Just read your post (6:51 AM )from a few minutes before my last one

Keep this in mind, nothing was installed wrong or backwards and read my post a couple of times about finding TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke and there's your reason for what you discovered .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 9:31am
Yup, that looks like the explanation thanks. As usual, if there is a 50/50 chance of getting it wrong, there's a 99% chance that I'll have it that way!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 9:39am
I'd say you did good here .You figured it out and got it running .

Distributors and timing can be confusing and easy all at the same time

On this side of the ocean we call it the 50/50/90 rule, maybe you're just 9% less lucky
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goldcup101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 6:07pm
Well, thanks for the help guys, it seems to be running pretty nicely now, will run it longer during the week to check choke and idle circuit are all operating ok. Will be tricky getting timing spot on since the tacho isn't working. I'm no electrical whizz but seems to me that there isn't much to go wrong with the tacho so it probably isn't the instrument. The Perfect Pass display isn't working either, the horn is rather anaemic, the alarm seems to beep all the time and the fuel guage seems iffy too. I'm thinking bad earth so might put an earth busbar
in later.

Having sorted the engine this morning, then managed to change the Morse throttle, replace the throttle cable, fit the underwater LED, and do some gelcoat repairs ready for wetsanding the hull. Seems never ending!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2017 at 6:31pm
Calum,
Run both a heavier ground and + feed wire up to the dash. See what happens. The small gauge original wiring creates a pretty big voltage drop. Clean up all your connections including the wiring harness rubber plugs. BTW, just forget about that alarm. They never did work so trust your gauges.


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