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New to me 78 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 12:46am
Is your grass green already?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 2:13am
It's so hard to pick out sounds ..... I thought I heard a ticking, maybe lifter noise, at idle, couldn't pick it up in the 3rd video. Congrats on the block, if no cracks.

I don't remember if oil was discussed in this thread, run some Valvoline VR1 20W50 or similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 6:16am
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

.I don't remember if oil was discussed in this thread, run some Valvoline VR1 20W50 or similar.

I don't think oil type was discussed and David's comment is important. With your flat tappet engine, you what an oil with ZDDP. VR1 20-50 is a good choice but there are others. I run the VR1 in all my old engines.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 8:51am
Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

Is your grass green already?


Almost Steve

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 9:21am
89 is the official recommendation but with such a low CR some run 87 without issue. 91-93 is a waste. Change the impeller and set the timing before splashing if you haven't already. Be on the lookout for hull leaks and bring a paddle!

Sounded like an exhaust leak to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 9:32am
Sounds good. A lot better than ours did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 9:49am
David,
I can leave my trusty paddle on the dock for you if you promise to return when done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 9:53am
Originally posted by NCH20SKIER NCH20SKIER wrote:

Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

Is your grass green already?


Almost Steve


HA!!! Thought I saw that in the video. Hey great job on the re-start, sounds good. Good Luck on the water test. Take a ski too, just in case it is running "that good"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 11:06am
First the important stuff. Yes the grass is green, year round. Tall fescue so it doesn't go dormant. It is however growing a LOT earlier this year. I have mowed twice. All videos have been at Jesse's house thus far so I can't take credit for his plush lawn.

On oil, I run mobile one 15w50 in my 99 and I plan to do the same in here. It is what I have easily found at the store. You all put me in that.

We will feel for the exhaust leak tim mentions.

An impeller is on the list. As for timing, we don't have that capability. Will someone please bring their timing light to white lake and give us a tutorial?

Thanks Greg, we have a paddle. What we need is a friend at the lake but you are going to the keys!

Also, any engine treatments recommended? Sea foam or the like? I seem to remember people around here frowning on them
78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 9:12pm
Sea foam is OK in the gas, but not OK in oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2017 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Sea foam is OK in the gas, but not OK in oil.


I really have no opinion one way or another on Sea Foam but the Sea Foam people would tend to disagree about the "not OK in oil" part See link to website

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2017 at 12:49am
We feel like we hear some off putting noise in the 3rd video...the one at 2000 RPM. We think we hear knocking/ticking on the port side in the valves. Are we hearing things??? Should we be making any adjustments before a water test due to this sound? Would love some engine gurus to give some advice. Or does that directly relate to the advice to time the engine?

We are also trying to learn more about our engine. We believe our firing order to be 13726548 which I thought was for a reg rotation engine. We got this by locating 1 on the distributor and then going clockwise around (I believe on a reg rotation you find 1 and go counter clockwise around the dist). Our engine does spin counterclockwise when looking at the pulleys from the bow. It is a 302 commander and I can't find the order stamped on it or on a label. Nor can I find 351 under the valve covers (I have read a bunch of threads).
78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2017 at 1:12am
First congratulations on the fire up, second I have to share a warning.
Running an engine on old gas can lock up your valves in the heads forcing valve job on your heads.
Running on old fuel will first show with an odd smell in your exhaust. Hard to describe but once you smell it you will remember it.
The old fuel will burn bad and coat the pistons and valves with a varnish like stinky substance that will end up sticking your valves.
I have seen this many times in my career and would not wish it on anyone.
Drain your old fuel and replace it with new.
Stabil only keeps fuel good for 6 mos if you read their labels, Sea Foam claims it will keep fuel good for one year.   I think this boat sat for 3 years. Drain and replace before you stick valves.
Our local UPS yard switched their trucks to diesel. They let the old Gas pump sit for almost a year and then to get rid of it offered free gas to employees, first come first serve.   Those that had tanks with 1/4 or less of fuel and took on nearly a full load all had engine failure.   Those with 1/2 tank or more had enough fuel to dilute it but some of those had engine failure.   When they come in for repair you can smell the bad gas varnish from 10 feet away.
Classic car owners will overhaul their engines, sometimes these guys take 6 mos or more before they re install and start the new engine.   I have seen or heard of many of those having this issue.   Sometimes guys get away with year old gas but not often.
3 year old gas I would not even consider trying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2017 at 1:46am
I got to listen to the video's you posted on you tube. Love and miss that sound. The old straight pipe engines sound perfect.   
The noise you were hearing on the passenger side seemed to be constant and I thought I heard the noise as you let off the throttle. Exhaust noise is louder as you accelerate and less when you let off.   The rhythmic sound heard sounded like a valve/lifter/rocker arm to me because it was quieter at higher RPM and there as you let off the throttle but hard to say for sure with only a video for reference.
Put new gas in it and see what you have on the water.
The reason for running at 2,000 as soon as possible after start up is to get your lifters spinning again. If any of the 16 lifters refuses to spin it will cause a camshaft failure and you don't want that.   The higher RPM encourages those lifters to start working properly right away. This was just a safety step after the long sit.
Very nice boat you found.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2017 at 6:15am
Originally posted by samudj01 samudj01 wrote:

We are also trying to learn more about our engine. We believe our firing order to be 13726548 which I thought was for a reg rotation engine. We got this by locating 1 on the distributor and then going clockwise around (I believe on a reg rotation you find 1 and go counter clockwise around the dist). Our engine does spin counterclockwise when looking at the pulleys from the bow.


Dist spins CCW for either a standard or RR Ford engine. That would make your firing order:
1 8 4 5 6 2 7 3 . Your wires are on correctly.    Yours IS a RR engine.   Duane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jarrell001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-10-2017 at 12:05am
Hello all,

Tomorrow afternoon, David and I will attempt to adjust the valves to rid our slight engine noise. We have seen several on line videos and will attempt to copy a method that involves setting top dead center on the cylinder, tightening the rocker until the rod stops turning, and then turning one full turn more.

While examining the rockers, we have noticed that there the rods have slightly different tension levels depending on which top dead center we are on (compression vs exhaust). Which top dead center should we be on to adjust the valves, or is the difference negligible?

Also, thank you so much for all the help so far! - JHJ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-10-2017 at 8:26am
That method doesn't work for non adjustable valvetrain. The ticking sound is unlikely to be valve noise that can be solved by adjusting preload (a head rebuild along the way would have created greater lifter preload, not a lack of it).

Did you investigate the exhaust leak? Because that's what it sounds like to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-10-2017 at 8:53am
I didn't hear anything that would give me pause about running the engine. Based on how long it has sat, I think fresh oil and some time running on the water would be a good idea before worrying about valve train or other internal issues. Obviously listen closely for something serious, but nothing I heard in that video would suggest you shouldn't run the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-10-2017 at 10:28am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

That method doesn't work for non adjustable valvetrain. The ticking sound is unlikely to be valve noise that can be solved by adjusting preload (a head rebuild along the way would have created greater lifter preload, not a lack of it).

Did you investigate the exhaust leak? Because that's what it sounds like to me.


Like Tim said, nothing you can do adjustment wise in your situation.

If it is a lifter/valvetrain issue, it's most likely a lifter since it sat for 3 years and if you take the boat and "run it like you stole it" for a while along with your recent fresh oil change, the noise might just disappear.like 63 skier suggested.

I'd check for an exhaust leak like Tim mentioned.too It won't disappear. Doesn't take much of a leak and it can be hard to find sometimes. It's easy to confuse an exhaust leak with lifter noise.

You never know, you might have some 38 year old exhaust gaskets in there that need replacing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jarrell001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 5:11pm
So just a quick update. On Friday, we put fresh gas and sea foam in the boat. We then ran the boat on the hose and still heard the ticking sound. We used a section of garden hose to listen with the valve covers off and confirmed that 7 and 8 were the source of the issue. We pulled the rods from those cylinders, cleaned and inspected them and when we put it back together, the sound was gone. I have no idea what fixed the problem. Some times you just get lucky.

We then ran the boat on Saturday morning at the lake. It started great and ran well in the 35 degree weather. Top end was about 45mph at about 4400RPM. Oil pressure was fine. Engine temp was about 150. It did climb to about 165-170 at WOT, but quickly went down at cruising speeds. I was expecting closer to 140 degrees. Any opinions on this temp?

Our water drip issues at the knuckle at the end of the exhaust manifold resolved itself as well.

Initially the shaft log took on water at a quick rate, roughly 4 drips per second. After running for 10 minutes, I would say we had 1 drip per second. We will be investigating shaft log threads and keeping an eye on this.

We also noticed that the boat sits a bit lower in the water than expected. Maybe we have some wet foam? (David may have some pictures.)

All in all, the day was very much a success.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 6:23pm
Congratulations, sounds like you have a good boat for summer.

The heating at high RPM is odd, normally you have so much water flow at high RPM the temp will stay dead on the thermostat temp. 140 for your boat.
A new thermostat may help this issue.
If you were sucking air it would affect you at low RPM's.
I am sure the experienced members on this forum will help with this issue.
You did recover all the freeze plugs you replaced? I have hear of one guy knocking the old plugs into the engine and leaving them there, this caused a flow issue affecting the cooling.
Temp climbing while running hard is a concern you should fix right away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 7:27pm
Jesse,
I feel the engine temp rising under full load WOT is normal although the 170 is on the high side. If you have or can borrow one, a I.R. temp gun comes in handy to check what your gauge is saying. Shoot the block temp as close to the temp sender as possible. Also, voltage and resistance comes to play on a gauge. Check the voltage going to the gauge. Resistance between the gauge and sender can also be checked. Clean up all the terminals/connections between the two (I'd also go after cleaning up all the electrics on the boat) I've seen close to a 3 volt voltage drop up to the dash due to corrosion.

The results you are getting on the engine running sure are encouraging!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 9:17pm
It was a successful couple of days. Jesse highlighted most of our successes and issues. I am thrilled so far. All gauges worked including the airguide. The boat is rewinterized (we are getting multiple nights in a row in the low 20s this week) in Jesse's barn.   

The temp issue is one we want to solve soon. I am planning on a new tstat. A Napa 140 EDF was recommended. Can someone show us in a pic where the tstat is located. Is it in a rubber housing on the port side?

Jesse also mentioned the boat floating just a touch low. The platform is riding half in the water for reference. Pic doesn't show well since Jesse is the only one in and on the driver side. Thoughts?

Some videos and pics follow. I know everyone likes pics and videos so I hope I don't put up too many. My video work wasn't the best. One has us discussing the RPM as we had already gone WOT once and failed to watch the RPM. We were using my iphone gps for MPH.

Video 4

Video 5

Video 6

Video 7









78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IAughtNaut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 9:42pm
looking good guys, can't wait for a ride
bring the ruckus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 9:57pm
David,
Don't expect the engine to run at 140 with a 140 T stat. It will run higher depending on the load. I'd say about 160 would be normal. You could have some wet foam but looking at the pictures and vids, not much. My Tique's platform is just about the water level.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JDD33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 10:15pm
Wow!!   That boat looks and sounds great! It looked good on the trailer and even better on the lift!!
A new impeller and thermostat, check all the hoses and hose clamps and you should be good. The engine does run warmer than 140, upward of 160 normally. The t-stat just opens fully at 140.

The small boats are really affected by weight, full tank of fuel couple guys in the boat and it seriously affects how they sit in the water. Yours looks like it's just about right.

Cool Boat !!! I'm with Adam, can't wait for a ride!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 10:18pm
Jesse and David, you've got to be smiling every waking moment. You didn't just get lucky, you've got a real gem of a boat there. Looks great, sounds great, I was a Tique admirer in my teens, remember well the nose high ride at times of ones on our lake. Gorgeous boat!

Doesn't look low in the water to me, if you have wet foam it can't be much. As for the temps, if it was me I'd look into that issue next November. An engine that runs rock steady on temp, then spikes a bit at WOT, and comes right back down isn't a problem. Sure, check connections, maybe change the stat if you want, cheap enough, but doubt anything is wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 10:40pm
We did put a new impeller in before we splashed her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2017 at 11:47pm
WOW looks great on the lift.

Time to enjoy it.

Donald
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2017 at 1:02am
Contrary to what is being posted above, it is NOT normal for temps to creep up while running hard. Temps creeping up AFTER a hard run can be (mostly) normal. If the impeller you just put in is a good high quality oem and not a Sierra, the RWP itself is the next most likely culprit, Keep a close eye on the temp gauge to see if this behavior gets worse. 170 isn't concerning in and of itself but it's not right.

Did you ever get a timing light on it?

Looking good for sure! Position in water looks normal for a 16'.
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