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    Posted: August-07-2016 at 11:53pm
So I thought many of you might be bored of your silly little ski boats by this time of the season, and so I thought I would lay out my son's eagle scout/winter project. You may remember this thread:
Seacamper
The long and short of it is that I did not know what to do with the boat. Mrs Seacamper is bugging me to get it out of the driveway, and does not want it at the dock. I do not want to get rid of it, and my youngest has been drawing pictures of what the boat will look like since he was 4. (He is 14 as of yesterday)
Soooooo, we decided to donate the boat to the local American Legion Post 8 that I am a member of. They are located on Lake Silver in Winter Haven Fl. The Legion also graciously donates dock space and boat slips to the Cypress Gardens Water Ski Team (CGWST), and Lake Silver is where the CGWST performs now that Legoland took over Cypress Gardens.
The plan is for the Legion to make the boat available for the Sea Scouts that they sponsor, to use as their boat. If you are unfamiliar with the Sea Scouts, here is their website:
Sea Scouts

Here is the plan:
Here is the boat as it sits now:


We obviously need to shoot for a military theme because of our connection with the Legion, so we are shooting for a "Swift Boat" look:


Here is a really bad concept picture using all my computer skills:


We plan to add a mud pump or two and create a water cannon on the roof and various jets to attempt to do this:


We will also add lights for night effects something like this:


The boat will be used by the Legion as a float in parades, and it will be used in the warm up acts for the CGWST monthly show, with Sea Scouts manning and maintaining the boat. We are going to get Jbear and Eddie signed up with Jbear as the silver haired skipper, and we are going to get Eddie in a eye patch and head scarf.

Any suggestions on how far a mud pump will fire a stream of water?? I will update this thread as we further the project.
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 1:33am
1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 8:54am
Hi Seacamper

Your computer skills far outweigh mine

I like the project and the fact that t's a donation

KenO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 11:25am
Great news, let me know if you find my sunglasses in there. Hey now you can actually back your ski boat trailers into the garage? Is the Exciter going too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 11:41am
Tom,
When you say "mud" pump, what type of pump are you referring to? If a solids diaphragm pump, they do not develop much pressure. What is needed is a dual volute double suction semi turbine type like this:





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 11:50am
I think he meant trash pump. But, I agree with Pete's assessment that it won't develop the pressure needed to squirt that high.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 12:25pm
Used trash pump for resurfacing



Does not make much pressure as you can see



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silver15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 1:27pm
My initial thought would be to use an irrigation pump that many people on lakes use to draw water from lake to sprinkle lawns. That would give you enough pressure and volume to make 3-4 impressive water cannons.... in my mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Great news, let me know if you find my sunglasses in there. Hey now you can actually back your ski boat trailers into the garage? Is the Exciter going too?

Yeah, the idea of using the exciter for a flyboard is negated by the 200+ hp jetski's in use now. I will look for the sunglasses. Patrick probably found them and is going full HW with them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Tom,
When you say "mud" pump, what type of pump are you referring to? If a solids diaphragm pump, they do not develop much pressure. What is needed is a dual volute double suction semi turbine type like this:




Hey Pete, I was hoping I could reduce the nozzle on a Harbor Freight 6.5hp unit. It would go from 3" to 1". Would that work?
1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:24pm
sure it'll "work", just like sticking your finger over the end of the hose makes the water shoot farther, but there's a limit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Silver15 Silver15 wrote:

My initial thought would be to use an irrigation pump that many people on lakes use to draw water from lake to sprinkle lawns. That would give you enough pressure and volume to make 3-4 impressive water cannons.... in my mind.

Nope! High volume low head isn't what's needed. The typical centrifugal in a high head version can make 120' but not an "irrigation" which is basically what CQ posted.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Silver15 Silver15 wrote:

My initial thought would be to use an irrigation pump that many people on lakes use to draw water from lake to sprinkle lawns. That would give you enough pressure and volume to make 3-4 impressive water cannons.... in my mind.

I was thinking the same but I would need a pretty big ac generator on board. It is not out of the question, but I was hoping to put 2 "trash pumps" on board and hard plumb them, one dedicated to a water cannon to spray the clown act, and one for 4 nozzles located at the 4 corners of the cabin for effects. I will also install 2 masts to hang speakers and lights.
So am I way off base on the HF pumps?
2" Pump

3" Pump

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by seacamper seacamper wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Tom,
When you say "mud" pump, what type of pump are you referring to? If a solids diaphragm pump, they do not develop much pressure. What is needed is a dual volute double suction semi turbine type like this:

Hey Pete, I was hoping I could reduce the nozzle on a Harbor Freight 6.5hp unit. It would go from 3" to 1". Would that work?

Reduction of the orifice will only develop the max head listed of the pump. Keep in mind the max head is typically the shut off point of the flow. Considering the 3" discharge size, it's a high volume low pressure pump. Just how high/far do you want the water to go?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:30pm
Pete, what are those pumps used for, fire trucks? Its really a price thing. We want to be able to shoot the clown act with the water cannon, and we want to hose down the "Splash Zone" during intermission. I want enough spray to look good, but I don't want to break skin. This all needs to be in the scale of a 24 foot boat verses the 70 foot boats in the pics above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by seacamper seacamper wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Tom,
When you say "mud" pump, what type of pump are you referring to? If a solids diaphragm pump, they do not develop much pressure. What is needed is a dual volute double suction semi turbine type like this:

Hey Pete, I was hoping I could reduce the nozzle on a Harbor Freight 6.5hp unit. It would go from 3" to 1". Would that work?

Reduction of the orifice will only develop the max head listed of the pump. Keep in mind the max head is typically the shut off point of the flow. Considering the 3" discharge size, it's a high volume low pressure pump. Just how high/far do you want the water to go?

I am guessing 50' or so, possibly 35' high? Set against a very small lake and right in front of the crowd line or at least just offset from the jump which I am guessing is 100' from shore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by seacamper seacamper wrote:


I was thinking the same but I would need a pretty big ac generator on board. It is not out of the question, but I was hoping to put 2 "trash pumps" on board and hard plumb them, one dedicated to a water cannon to spray the clown act, and one for 4 nozzles located at the 4 corners of the cabin for effects. I will also install 2 masts to hang speakers and lights.
So am I way off base on the HF pumps?
2" Pump

3" Pump


Both these pumps have average max heads of 85' and 97'. That's roughly 35 to 45 psi which is lower than what the typical house has. Turn on your garden hose and stick it vertical and you'll see the effect. I don't feel that's what you are looking for.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 7:20pm
Tom,
Here's some engine driven centrifugal pumps that are considered to be high pressure. The next step up would be getting more into fancier turbine types similar to the one I pictured. You need to look at the head ratings as I feel it's more accurate than just psi. 1 psi is equal to 2.31 feet of head. In other words, if you had a vertical length of pipe filled with water and applied 1 psi at the bottom, the pressure would push the water up the pipe 2.3 feet (27.6 inches). You also need to factor in the suction lift which basically is deducting the lift in feet from the total head. The suction lift is the vertical distance from the water to the pump.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MechGaT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 10:20pm
Also, you need to look at placement. If there is not enough head on the suction of the pump it will sound like you are pumping rocks (cavitation). The longer you run like that, the less performance you get out of the pump & the faster you destroy the impeller. Check the NPSHr (Net positive suction head required). Getting it below the waterline is best. If you're only running it a few hours at a time 6 or 8 times a year, you probably won't notice a problem for 15 years or more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2016 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by seacamper seacamper wrote:

Pete, what are those pumps used for, fire trucks? .

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Tom,
a dual volute double suction semi turbine type like this:



These were primarily developed as booster pumps on fire sprinkler systems. The design is still common for sprinkler systems were there isn't enough GPM and PSI from the city water supply.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2016 at 12:44am
If you are looking for a small budget pump, maybe consider a stand up jet ski engine/pump, You can get these cheap. May take some engineering to adapt it to a hose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2016 at 1:18am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

If you are looking for a small budget pump, maybe consider a stand up jet ski engine/pump, You can get these cheap. May take some engineering to adapt it to a hose.

That is a great idea!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silver15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2016 at 3:07am
The jet ski pump set up is really pretty brilliant. Pm me if you decide to go this route. My little brother knows standup jet skis and jet skis in general better than anyone I know and probably has multiple pumps and engines laying around. If not, I'm sure he could help you find one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2016 at 11:02pm
Man, dollar for dollar I am going to try this first::

2" Pump

For that price, if it doesn't work out, I will just use it around the dock!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2016 at 12:45am
I think you'll be very happy if you can locate a beater jet ski or waverunner (like free) and start there. You will have a gasoline powered engine and a pump all together as a starting point. Look at those goofy jet platforms that lift adults 20-30 feet in the air! Seems like all you need is a manifold with the outlets wherever you need them. The throttle can be adjusted for spray distance (pressure).

My neighbor has a fleet of the dang things in her yard and she would probably not even miss one. Craigslist is your friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2016 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by tryathlete tryathlete wrote:

Here's your jet pump in action

I have to tell you that I respect that amount of water. It would be awesome. I will look around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2016 at 12:19pm
My company makes those split case pumps for sprinkler system applications. You can buy several old jet skis for the price of one of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2016 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by seacamper seacamper wrote:

Originally posted by tryathlete tryathlete wrote:

Here's your jet pump in action

I have to tell you that I respect that amount of water. It would be awesome. I will look around.

Originally posted by Silver15 Silver15 wrote:

The jet ski pump set up is really pretty brilliant. Pm me if you decide to go this route. My little brother knows standup jet skis and jet skis in general better than anyone I know and probably has multiple pumps and engines laying around. If not, I'm sure he could help you find one.

I feel you should take Jake up on getting in touch with his brother. My concern is what happens when restricting the output of the typical PWC pump. You may need to by-pass some of the water? I've never seen a performance HP/GPM/PSI curve for them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2017 at 12:44am
Here's the HF 2" pump reduced to 3/4.
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