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Flow of raw water through motor

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by GMacLaren GMacLaren wrote:

A better way:

Grant,
You did it again!!! Thomas does not have fresh water cooling!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 7:29pm
Like TimB said, the engine is going to back fill When I put my GT40 in the water, you can hear it back filling the first few seconds. When you pull your boat out of the water, the block doesn't remain completely full without the water flow. You can take the thermostat out and there won't be any water at the top of the intake manifold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by GMacLaren GMacLaren wrote:

A better way:

Grant,
. . . Thomas does not have fresh water cooling!!


Tell him to look under his boat.
If he can't find any there - - he can use some of mine.
There's plenty enough to share.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by GMacLaren GMacLaren wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Grant,
. . . Thomas does not have fresh water cooling!!


Tell him to look under his boat.
If he can't find any there - - he can use some of mine.
There's plenty enough to share.

Grant,
I have to ask if you know what fresh water cooling is or are you just trying to be funny?

The diagram you posted is fresh water cooling. If you don't know what it is, I'd be happy to explain it but in another thread so as not to confuse Thomas even more.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 8:13pm
Grant posted a beautiful rendition (in color) of closed cooling.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by DrCC DrCC wrote:

Uh,    doesn't Grant have fresh water cooling but posted a beautiful rendition (in color) of closed cooling ?


Fresh water is closed cooling.

Raw water is the open cooling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 8:22pm


edited:   keep scrolling

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by DrCC DrCC wrote:

Not in my book.   I learned a long time ago raw and fresh are identical, closed is only closed. It's one of the best ways to avoid confusion.


I agree the term fresh water for closed is confusing but I believe it come from use fresh vs salt water for cooling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by DrCC DrCC wrote:

. . . . closed is only closed.


I'll agree. And the latest diagram I posted is a CLOSED system. -- where the cooling of the coolant in the closed loop is via a heat exchanger. It's a much BETTER system for cooling a marine engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 10:00pm
It is a much better system but also contributes to some of the reason why a new boat costs more than your first house
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 10:12pm
edit:    continue scrolling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by GMacLaren GMacLaren wrote:

   the latest diagram I posted is a CLOSED system. -- where the cooling of the coolant in the closed loop is via a heat exchanger. It's a much BETTER system for cooling a marine engine.

WHY?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2016 at 11:18pm
Easier to winterize? the ability to use aluminum block and heads in all types of water?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2016 at 12:39am
Why Better?
There are many reasons, but for me the two major reasons why "closed" is better than "open."
1) The engine can operate at optimum temperatures when cooled by a "closed loop."
These temperatures are much higher than those you are able to safely regulate with an open system like the one I'm trying to regulate on my old Skier -- the one with a cracked block I had to replace because the previous owner didn't drain the "open system" water.
2) The coolant coming in contact with the block, heads, intake manifold and circulating pumps are of a known chemical make-up -- clean, especially designed for that application -- better (more efficient) heat transfer, less internal corrosion, freeze point depression, lubricating qualities, etc., etc.

A DISCUSSION HERE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2016 at 1:29am
You wouldn't want an early Holman Moody then Grant- they barely crack 120 on the very hottest days   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2016 at 11:48am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Grant, you have a Conquerer-crusader (when they were owned by Thermo Electron).


Good to know, I'll correct in my notes.
Thanks,
Wouldn't it be nice if posts here could be edited (by author)?
Would make the whole thing more useful, methinks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2016 at 11:59am
Originally posted by GMacLaren GMacLaren wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Grant, you have a Conquerer-crusader (when they were owned by Thermo Electron).


Good to know, I'll correct in my notes.
Thanks,
Wouldn't it be nice if posts here could be edited (by author)?
Would make the whole thing more useful, methinks.
: -)


You can......go to your post and in upper right hand corner is "post options". edit post is one option to use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2016 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

You wouldn't want an early Holman Moody then Grant- they barely crack 120 on the very hottest days   

Good to know.
I'll bet there were some interesting discussions between HM and CC about that.
I lived and worked in Charlotte in 1964-68. A good friend did special machine work for HM -- bending the rules a bit for HM's left-front suspensions. I visited their shop a few times -- at the airport. I don't remember anything about their marine activities. But they were grinding cams, so it makes sense that they got involved with boat engines.

RE: "Flow of raw water through motor"
Have we drifted far enough from the subject?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2016 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by fanofccfan fanofccfan wrote:

Originally posted by GMacLaren GMacLaren wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Grant, you have a Conquerer-crusader (when they were owned by Thermo Electron).


Good to know, I'll correct in my notes.
Thanks,
Wouldn't it be nice if posts here could be edited (by author)?
Would make the whole thing more useful, methinks.
: -)


You can......go to your post and in upper right hand corner is "post options". edit post is one option to use.


Consider it done!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2016 at 12:36am
In THIS manual, we find the following diagrams. And, BTW, with a properly designed Closed Cooling System, water temperature under the boat should have little or no effect on engine operating temperature.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 11:45am
FWIW:
We are still not happy with the temperatures in MacSkier, and wonder if anyone here is getting readings above 120F. Our suspicion is that there is too much "warmed" water leaving the boat via the aft-most orifices in the manifolds' aft-cap, and we will again try restricting the "side" openings in those caps. Restrictions here will force more "warmed" water into the thermostat chamber -- where water temps have NEVER opened the 'stat.
Also, we have run tests that show NO water is leaving the "thermostat/pressure release" chamber via the uppermost hoses -- the ones leading to the upper jacket in the manifolds.
We also suspect there has been no water at the temperature gauge sensor, which would explain cool readings on the boat's gauge -- temps confirmed with handheld infrared gauge.

The engine is running great -- outperforming expectations -- but cool running has to be harmful to the engine.

BTW, there are some excellent discussions of marine engine cooling here.
LINK

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 11:56am
I run 150 on my conquerer-crusader. Sounds like you have something plumbed incorrectly. Adding restrictions is not the proper solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Adding restrictions is not the proper solution.

That's what we keep telling ourselves!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 12:04pm
It has been my experience that air at the sensor would read higher temperature than water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 12:14pm
"It has been my experience that air at the sensor would read higher temperature than water. "
That was my expectation. But a fellow here who owned a big boat dealership showed me how if there is no water around the sensor, readings are low -- this was confirmed with hand-held infrared thermometer. There is plenty of water cooling the block, heads and intake manifold -- and exiting the "engine" (via the intake manifold near the sensor's location.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 12:21pm
How did he show you that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

How did he show you that?

I'm curious too!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMacLaren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 7:14pm
He drew a sketch, similar to mine.

On the Skier's engine, the effluent from the engine's water jackets is lower than the thermistor's location in the intake manifold, so it is possible the thermistor is not in the coolant.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 8:27pm
Exhaust manifold inlets are always lower than the thermostat housing, why would that matter?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2016 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Exhaust manifold inlets are always lower than the thermostat housing, why would that matter?

I feel Grant should go talk to this gentleman for more information:
Originally posted by GMacLaren GMacLaren wrote:

But a fellow here who owned a big boat dealership showed me how if there is no water around the sensor, readings are low -- this was confirmed with hand-held infrared thermometer.

He must know more about it that we do?? Maybe big boats are different?


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