Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Leo Bentz, Ski Nautique and Boat #1
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Leo Bentz, Ski Nautique and Boat #1

 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <1 56789 17>
Author
phatsat67 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: March-13-2006
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 6147
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 3:30pm
This thing is so cool. I don't have any correct parts but I could offer weekend help sometime ha.
Back to Top
skutsch View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: June-19-2008
Location: Racine, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 2874
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Originally posted by 75 Tique 75 Tique wrote:

Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

Hmmmm, I wonder if that 272 block would work well in a certain Atom or Starfire with fins, that I know happen to be missing an engine...


I see the listing is down Steve, do you know where that boat ended up?


I'm going to guess in his garage. He's being coy. The last time someone was being coy around here.....

Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Awesome work Craig, Looks fantastic. I have a project lining up that is going to need to be regelled and I may take your advice. Want to do another one for me?    


...the project showed up in his garage.


Touche Larry, I hope it's true. I had a deal made on that boat but had to let it go due to too much stuff happening right now,   I was sort of hoping a few years down the road that it might still be available.   I sure hope someone here ended up with it.


It ended up in MN: 1958 Starfire.   I am on the fence about bringing it home, I need more barn space...
Back to Top
Riley View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-19-2004
Location: Portland, ME
Status: Offline
Points: 7946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 6:29pm
Looks like a great engine Alan. For some reason a 272 can be bored out to a 292 and a 292 can be bored out to a 312, but a 272 cannot be bored out to a 312.
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 9:14pm
Guys, as I understand it from two different sources, you can't make a true-blue 312 out of anything else. The crank journals are bigger on a 312 than on any other Y-block. You can make a 312 cubic inch engine, but it's still not a "real" one.

I have been told that the only way to externally identify a real 312 is to look on the outside diameter of the flywheel flange on the crank for a cast-in "dot" that is about the size of an Aspirin tablet.

I've been looking for a complete RH 312 for my '63. I have a bunch of parts and two partial engines, but I don 't know if any of the stuff I have is any good.
"Art"
Back to Top
Eether View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: October-20-2015
Location: Greenville
Status: Offline
Points: 64
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eether Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 9:34pm
Ha, was just typing that out and saw Art beat me.. The 312 really is a different animal. Sourcing a block from a non marine environment sounds like a good plan as one side of mine had to be sleeved. Sadly, a truck shop near here had stacks of 312 engines that ended up at the scrap yard a few years ago..
Back to Top
Riley View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-19-2004
Location: Portland, ME
Status: Offline
Points: 7946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 10:28pm
I was looking at a 292 on a stand today that is getting ready to be rebuilt and the way it was explained to me is that the journals on a 312 are larger to accommodate the larger diameter crank, but Ford took away material from the caps, so they are not as beefy as they are in the smaller displacement engines. This guy said grinding the 312 crank down to fit into the 292 journals makes for a stronger engine.
Back to Top
lewy2001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: March-19-2008
Location: NSW Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 10:36pm
Found this info on the net confirming what Art posted.

Y Block Identify


If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 10:56pm
It's my understanding that 312s have a bad habit of breaking rod caps. Boat Dr. had one that broke a crank. People on the web say that a stock 292 is a stronger engine. For some reason, I'm still partial to 312s because one of those is what got me involved in this whole boating and skiing world. I could be talked into using a 292. I could tell people that it's a 312, but I don't do that sort of thing!
"Art"
Back to Top
Riley View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-19-2004
Location: Portland, ME
Status: Offline
Points: 7946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2016 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by ArtCozier ArtCozier wrote:

   I could be talked into using a 292. I could tell people that it's a 312, but I don't do that sort of thing!


I bet you wouldn't be the first!
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 9:48am
Mark,
Interesting find on identifying the Y block. I found some more with a casting # listing:

Y-BLOCK CASTING NUMBERS

ALL BLOCKS HAVE 6015 in the block casting number. This is found on all blocks and is Ford's number for an engine block.

Example- EDB 6015 E

BLOCK I.D. CODES                               NOTES

CEBY   256-272 cu in      Cast in Canada. Export block. Used in Canada, Australia, South Africa

CECK 292 cu in              Cast in Canada. Export block. Used in Canada, Australia ect

EAA     215 cu. in. I-6      1952-53 Ford OHV six cylinder. Increased to 223 in '54. See EBP

EAD     317 cu. in. V8      1952-54. Early Lincoln OHV engine. Not interchangeable with Ford. see Lincoln page                           www.ford-y-block.com

EAL      279 cu. in. V8      1954 Ford HD truck. see Lincoln page.

EAM    317 cu. in. V8      1954 Ford HD truck. see Lincoln page.     www.ford-y-block.com

EBJ       341 cu. in. V8      1955. Early Lincoln OHV engine. See Lincoln page.

ECU      368 cu. in. V8      1956-57. Early Lincoln OHV engine. See Lincoln page.

EBP      223 cu. in. I-6       1954- cars & Lt. trucks. EBR, EBS, EBT in HD trucks

EBU      239 cu. in. V8      1954 cars only. Cleveland and Dearborn versions.

EBV      239 cu. in. V8      1955 pickup, small cam bearings        www.ford-y-block.com

EBY      256 cu. in. V8      1954 Mercury

ECG      272 cu. in V8        1955 to 57 cars and trucks. Typically Dearborn casting.

ECH      292 cu. in. V8      1955                         www.ford-y-block.com

ECJ       292 cu. in. V8       1955

ECL       292 cu. in. V8      1955

ECK      292 cu. in. V8      1955-56                    www.ford-y-block.com

EDB-A      292 cu. in. V8      1955-57 if cast at Dearborn Foundry. EDB found near distributor and generator

B5AE    272 cu in V8        1959 Replacement block for 272. May have been used for marine & fleet

PLEASE NOTE: 292 and 312 Blocks were machined from the same castings with the same markings. If the following blocks have EBU main caps it is a 292, if it has ECZ main caps it is a 312.

ECZ-A    292-312 cu. in. V8      1956 ECZ 6015 A    With EBU main caps =292.    ECZ main caps =312   Check crank flange or main caps.

ECZ-B    292-312 cu in V8    1956-57 292 or 312

ECZ -C     312 cu. in. V8       1957 ECZ 6015 C.        292 with EBU main caps.

EDB-E      292 cu. in V8       1958-59 cars and trucks to April 59.     312 in Mercury

B9AE-F     292 cu. in. V8     1959-60 cars and trucks. (312 with ECZ main caps, 1959 & 60 Mercury only)                            

C1AE-R     292 cu. in. V8     1961 cars and trucks              www.ford-y-block.com

C2AE-C     292 cu. in. V8      1962 cars 62-64 trucks

B7ME        312 cu. in. V8     1962? later 312 replacement block. C2AE main webs. Only example seen was a marine engine      

NOTE: 6015 is Ford's number for an engine block. All blocks have this number.

This is from Jim Mummerts website


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
81nautique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-03-2005
Location: Big Rock, Il
Status: Offline
Points: 5762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 10:41am
That's the site I used to identify the motor I just picked up, it is a B5AE, 1959 272.   I too want a 312 for correctness but an option would be to bore this one to a 292. I'm going to get this motor running and do some tests on it to see what kid of shape it's in, if it's a decent motor I'm hesitant to just strip it for parts unless we simply can't find what we want. Then I would send this one out and let the machine shop determine if it can be bored.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 11:23am
Alan,
I remember when Billy was working on those Y blocks of his, he called and talked with Jim Mummerts. I understand is he sure knows the engines even the RR's.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
Eether View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: October-20-2015
Location: Greenville
Status: Offline
Points: 64
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eether Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 12:11pm
John Mummert and Ted Eaton of Eaton balancing are both great resources. Sorry if I missed it, but would you be putting a rr engine in the boat given the left hand helm?

Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 12:18pm
Ethan,
Alan is lucky since the SN #1 was built with a port helm.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 12:24pm
Alan, I was kind of wondering the same thing that Eether mentioned. The only downside of a RH engine in a port-side drive boat is that the counter-torque will tend to add to the driver's weight on the port side of the boat and cause it to run more left-side down when you have the driver only in the boat. You might also find that it will be a bit more difficult to dock with the pier on the port side, but no worse than most other brands of ski boats with the standard rotation props and starboard-side drivers' station.

With the newer boats, it is more of a problem having a LH engine in the starboard-side drive boats, because the bottoms and rudders are asymmetrical to compensate for the torque. The early boats are in fact asymmetrical, but purely by happenstance. Call me if you wish to discuss.
"Art"
Back to Top
81nautique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-03-2005
Location: Big Rock, Il
Status: Offline
Points: 5762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 3:10pm
I think somewhere down the line someone got crossed up but I have always planned to put a standard rotation (left hand prop) motor in the boat.

The motor I just picked up is a right hander, I mentioned indexing the pump on the velvet drive that came with it so I could put it on a lefty, maybe that's where it got confusing.

Ps. the Hurricane spins a right hander but my 2012 200 Sport spins a lefty and as long as I remember what boat I'm driving docking either boat is not a problem.   They are certainly different approaches but neither is difficult.
Back to Top
Riley View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-19-2004
Location: Portland, ME
Status: Offline
Points: 7946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:


Ps. as long as I remember what boat I'm driving docking either boat is not a problem.    


Sometimes there is a momentary delay during remembering part.

I don't know about you, but we will be going to White Lake if you need anything from you northeast.
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 3:29pm
Hey Alan.....Despite the LH engine, your SPN turns a RH prop due to the reversal in the 1.2 to 1 transmission. If the Hurricane has a 1 to 1 on a RH engine, they should feel the same. It's the prop rotation, not the engine rotation, that imparts the torque to the hull.
"Art"
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 3:31pm
Oh,wait!!!!! It's a V-Drive SPN, isn't it??? I was thinking direct drive. Mea Culpa!
"Art"
Back to Top
63 Skier View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: October-06-2006
Location: Concord, NH
Status: Offline
Points: 4228
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Ps. the Hurricane spins a right hander but my 2012 200 Sport spins a lefty and as long as I remember what boat I'm driving docking either boat is not a problem.   They are certainly different approaches but neither is difficult.

I had a '74 Triumph Bonneville, with right foot shift and left foot rear brake. While still owning it, I bought an '81 Honda 900 Super Sport, with the now standard left foot shift, right foot brake. Talk about confusing, and an accident waiting to happen owning both at the same time. I'd get on one, particularly the Triumph, and go up and down the local side street a couple of times to condition my memory.
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
Back to Top
phatsat67 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: March-13-2006
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 6147
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by ArtCozier ArtCozier wrote:

Hey Alan.....Despite the LH engine, your SPN turns a RH prop due to the reversal in the 1.2 to 1 transmission. If the Hurricane has a 1 to 1 on a RH engine, they should feel the same. It's the prop rotation, not the engine rotation, that imparts the torque to the hull.


Alan almost caught Art!!
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 6:37pm
My mind automatically blocks out anything with the engine turned around backwards in the boat. The only time a flywheel should be toward the front of the boat was in the old days when they had to turn them around to make RH engines.
"Art"
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by ArtCozier ArtCozier wrote:

My mind automatically blocks out anything with the engine turned around backwards in the boat. The only time a flywheel should be toward the front of the boat was in the old days when they had to turn them around to make RH engines.

Art,
My mind does the same!!

BTW, engines weren't turned around backwards to create RR engines. They were turned around to get them lower in the bilge since they had such large flywheels. The RR was just a by product of turning them around! Now Higgins put true RR rotation engines in their small craft. Flywheel forward, a port helm and swinging a LH prop!


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
roberto1612 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: December-02-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roberto1612 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2016 at 1:51am
I have a Interceptor Y block engine and marine trans which came from a small Trojan. I can check the year and size if you are interested in it. My guess is that its a 1960-62 292 cube and it is a Velvet Drive trans (probably 1:1). I do not have the marine manifolds at this time. I do have most every thing else though and it is very clean inside. but will need rebuild.
Back to Top
IAughtNaut View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: August-22-2010
Location: TN
Status: Offline
Points: 2568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IAughtNaut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2016 at 7:58am
Originally posted by roberto1612 roberto1612 wrote:

will need rebuild.
I don't know that Alan has the ability or the drive to rebuild anything that's not already perfect. case in point, his 200. if it's not cherry, it probably won't work.
bring the ruckus
2000 Pro Air
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2016 at 9:38am
Originally posted by roberto1612 roberto1612 wrote:

I have a Interceptor Y block engine and marine trans which came from a small Trojan. I can check the year and size if you are interested in it. My guess is that its a 1960-62 292 cube and it is a Velvet Drive trans (probably 1:1). I do not have the marine manifolds at this time. I do have most every thing else though and it is very clean inside. but will need rebuild.


Alan, I think that you already have an engine lined up. If that is not so, or if you have any interest in this 292, you certainly have first option at it. If, however, you are not interested, and IF it is a reverse rotation, i.e. a RIGHT HAND ROTATATION engine, I would be interested.

Roberto, you might send me a PM if you want with any details that you might have.

Thanks, guys!
"Art"
Back to Top
81nautique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-03-2005
Location: Big Rock, Il
Status: Offline
Points: 5762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2016 at 9:45am
Originally posted by ArtCozier ArtCozier wrote:

Originally posted by roberto1612 roberto1612 wrote:

I have a Interceptor Y block engine and marine trans which came from a small Trojan. I can check the year and size if you are interested in it. My guess is that its a 1960-62 292 cube and it is a Velvet Drive trans (probably 1:1). I do not have the marine manifolds at this time. I do have most every thing else though and it is very clean inside. but will need rebuild.


Alan, I think that you already have an engine lined up. If that is not so, or if you have any interest in this 292, you certainly have first option at it. If, however, you are not interested, and IF it is a reverse rotation, i.e. a RIGHT HAND ROTATATION engine, I would be interested.

Roberto, you might send me a PM if you want with any details that you might have.

Thanks, guys!


Art, let's see what it is and where it is and go from there. One of us can use it, I'm not going to use the block I just picked up, that was for Interceptor parts only so I'm still searching. Going the 292 route is certainly an option right now.

Roberto, I sent you a PM so we can get the details. Thank you
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2016 at 12:38pm
I'll stand aside and wait to see what develops. I still need to go look at the 2 engines that I know of in FL.
"Art"
Back to Top
ScottZ View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: January-20-2004
Location: Clanton, AL
Status: Offline
Points: 1143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScottZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2016 at 2:42pm
I have located the windshield. It does not have the brackets or the gasket. I will be happy to donate it to the cause. In the meantime I will look around to see if I can locate some brackets.
Scott Zuelzke
Lake Mitchell , AL
       
1984 Ski Nautique       
1972 Skier
Back to Top
C-Bass View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: November-18-2008
Location: Columbus, IN
Status: Offline
Points: 1248
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2016 at 3:46pm
Does anyone have a picture of the brackets you're looking for. I have a pair that don't match the split windshield, but I think might be for the single piece.
Craig
67 SN
73 SN
99 Sport
85SN
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <1 56789 17>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC