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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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I haven't had time to read all the posts, but has anyone suggested that you might not be pumping a full amount of water to the cooling system? The way those engines are set up, they give priority to the engine cooling, and excess water goes straight to the manifolds. So if your pump isn't delivering a full amount of water, it won't show on the temperature gauge. How old is your impeller? Is the inside of the pump worn? Are you using a genuine Sherwood impeller? (Sierra impellers don't have the same design, no matter what the catalog says)
You can do a volume test if you want: Take the hose off the top fitting of the water pump (the outlet) and stick a garden hose in the hose going to the thermostat housing to supply water to the engine while you do this test. Put a piece of 1" hose 3-4 feet long on the fitting where you took off the engine hose. Turn on the garden hose, then start the engine. The water coming from the pump should fill a 5-gallon bucket in 16 to 20 seconds. You are looking for a minimum of 17 to 20 gallons per minute at 1200 to 1500 rpm. The formula is: Gallons divided by seconds, times 60 = gallons per minute. Nice looking boats; welcome to the site. Where the sand-hill is Buchanan Dam??? |
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"Art"
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Art. that's a great idea. In fact, that's exactly what it sounds like to me.... a dry exhaust. I will definitely check that out as soon as it gets above freezing.
Buchanan Dam is in the Texas hill country about 50 miles from Austin. I'm 2 minutes from Lake LBJ, 5 minutes from Inks Lake and 10 minutes from Lake Buchanan. Can't ask for much better location than that unless you live on the lake. And around here that means a lot of cash for the home and taxes. thanks a million for the advice. and thanks to everyone else for your help. i'll let you know what i find. |
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terminaldegree
Groupie Joined: October-05-2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Greetings, antique boater, from a fellow '96 sport owner. I, too, wish my boat were just a little quieter, but it's not too bad sitting in any of the locations in front of the motor, and definitely the worst in the stern seat, anywhere from minimum planing speed to about 25 mph.
I have considered the FAE option, but I don't want to restrict the performance of my boat in any way from the factory setup. My wife and I have a set of fitted musicians' earplugs that we can wear for longer rides (with 9db filters in, everything sounds quite realistic, just a little softer...works great at the movies, too). Since I'm a whisker cheap, and may need to replace another manifold sometime in the next year, I'll probably leave it all alone. I miss boating in the hill country - I'm a UT-Austin grad and used to take drives up there for grins with friends, and got to pilot an old 1980 stars n' stripes Mastercraft on lake Travis in the early 2000s...back when there was water in there! |
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1996 Sport Nautique GT40/Acme 422
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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terminaldegree,
unfortunately you can't carry on a conversation in mine! I'm going to check out the water volume as Art suggested. I really think that is going to be the solution. Hook 'em Horns! Are you living in Wisconsin? If so, no wonder you miss the Texas hill country! My first inboard was an '79 MasterCraft stars and stripes. I loved that boat but looking back I can say for sure it wasn't built like the Correct Crafts. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3327 |
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Upon loosing one exhaust flapper, my boat sounded markedly different/louder at 15-25 mph.
therefore i inquire, is your exhaust flapper torn away or missing? |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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KRoundy
Platinum Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Lake Stevens Status: Offline Points: 1702 |
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Before you do a flow test: It will be a lot easier to just open up the impeller and look at the insides. I am guessing that you'll see the problem immediately. If not, then you could do the flow tests.
I went to school in east Texas (Longview), but while in school got to see the state quite a bit. I miss the people in Texas, but that summer heat can be a bit much. Welcome to the site! |
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Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique
Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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Agreed something odd is going on. My dad's 98 is barely audible at idle speed with the hull hugger. All you can here is the normal exhaust noise of it passing through the pipes/glass down tubes.
Even my 85 is quiet to me but I love the sound of the stock mufflers. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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I wonder if you could get louder manifolds by putting the riser gasket in backwards?
Have you tried replacing the exhaust manifold gaskets? |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Good point. Joe, but I don't think that would affect the amount of noise much if at all. The purpose of the tab on the gasket is to force the water to flow up into the riser through the higher of the two ports that are in front and in back of the exhaust passage, thereby avoiding a hot spot on the riser.
It's easy to see whether the tab is oriented correctly without disassembly by looking at the joint to confirm that the tab is matched with the tab on the riser. Could also be that some P.O. ran it dry and burned the baffles out of the muffler. |
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"Art"
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winniskier
Senior Member Joined: March-15-2008 Location: Gilford, NH Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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The noise is normal in my boat. I've had two hullhuggers, one original and one replacement, and the same result when the boat is operating normally. To avoid pounding that bothers my family when the water is anything but flat, I need to drive the boat at plowing speed. There is a noise, maybe more tone than volume, that comes from the stern, I believe through the exhaust. It goes away when with more throttle and the boat on plane.
At the risk of sparking hackles from the loud pipes crowd, I would be open to the idea of adding another muffle if it made sense. Even with my otherwise quiet boat, my need to ski at 6:30 a.m. is often noted by my neighbors, even those who have no reservations about fire pits and tunes until early into the morning. |
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Jim
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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That sounds like a call for straight pipes and to move your skiing time up to 6:00AM. |
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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First, thanks to everyone for your responses to this issue. I really appreciate it and am proud to be a member of this group.
Now to answer some questions from previous posts: 1. The flapper on my single exhaust is in good shape. 2. The exhaust gaskets appear to be installed in the proper position although I couldn’t determine if they’re flipped front to back. I could not see the tab that Art referred to. The stamped labels are on the outside so I would think if the gaskets were backwards the lettering would be toward the engine and not legible. It is worth noting that the previous owner replaced the exhaust manifolds. Not sure why unless they rusted out. 3. I replaced the hull hugger right after I bought the boat. The baffles in the old one were broken off possibly due to the lack of water in the exhaust. So maybe this problem has been going on for a while. 4. Yep, it’s hot here in Texas. But while a lot of people around the country have stored their boats for the winter we’re still on the lake. My wife and I and the mutt took three boat rides in February in 80° weather. The water was like glass. Great footin’ water! Today I tested the amount of water getting through the engine as suggested by Art. Rather than let the water pressure from the faucet affect the results, I ran the hose into a large bucket and put the intake hose from the pump into the bucket. That way the pump is actually sucking the water instead of the hose forcing it in. Running at 1200 rpm the engine was pumping five gallons of water from the exhaust in sixty seconds and for what it’s worth the pump sucks five gallons of water from the bucket in sixty seconds (seems reasonable that in intake and exhaust are the same). From what Art says I should be getting about three times that amount of water from the exhaust so hopefully this is the problem and should be easy enough to resolve if I can determine what it is. The impellor is a Sherwin with some wear but it doesn’t look bad enough to prevent it from pumping properly. I assume that if it were installed backwards it would flip itself over as soon as the engine was cranked. Or would the “tabs” just break off? I checked the the thermostat it appears to be okay or at least it’s not stuck. So there you have it. Not sure where to go from here. Thanks again. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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Hmm, it's a simple system. Does it seem slow to pump water out of the exhaust on initial start up or does it happen quickly?
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Oh-oh; I must not have been clear with my instructions. The object of the garden hose was to feed cooling water to the engine while performing the test. That way you can run it as long as you want without hurting anything. The garden hose goes in the hose that leads to the thermostat housing, not the one going to the pump. I was also assuming that the boat was floating in the water while doing this, but sucking from a bucket is fine as long as you're sure the end of your hose isn't sucked down against the bottom of the bucket.
60 seconds to fill a bucket is far too long. Something's wrong in your pump system. If you want to call me, PM me for my phone number! |
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"Art"
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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There is a little trickle but It takes a few seconds for any significant amount to come out of the exhaust. I'm assuming that's because the thermostat is not open yet.
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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Nah, T stat shouldn't have anything to do with it. Water bypasses that directly into the manifolds because they need cooling water all the time not just when the T stat is open.
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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at 1200 rpms that engine should suck a 5 gallon bucket dry in what 10-15 seconds?
If it takes a good amount of time to get a good flow of water from the exhaust it probably has an aeration issue (air leak) somewhere causing the pump not to move an adequate amount of water. |
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Art, your instructions were clear but I thought if the pump was sucking the water I'd get a more accurate result. I had the water hose running in the bucket at the same time the pump was sucking water so there was never a time when the pump wasn't suckling water. I had the end of the pump hose attached to a piece of angle iron the keep it from touching the bottom of the bucket. I'd love to talk.
Derris Lanier Images by Derris 512.771.5565 http://www.imagesbyderris.com |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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What goes in must come out. If the engine is full of water what you suck up will come out the exhaust right away, though it might take time for the pipes/muffler to fill up depending on how the boat is sitting.
Sherwin -> Sherwood? I hope so. Stick with Sherwood brand impellers, they make the pump. And yes, the veins will right themselves, no need to worry about a backwards impeller *when new*. Reinstalling a well used impeller backwards with "set" veins might be cause for concern though. You'd be able to see the riser gasket tab exposed underneath the riser. The tab should face forward, following the contour underneath the riser. |
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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crap! I meant Sherwood. Must've been thinking about paint!
I'll go check these gaskets. I was looking at the exhaust manifold gaskets at the engine not on the top. |
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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The exhaust riser gaskets are installed in the correct position so apparently that's not the problem.
I just retested the water flow and got pretty much the same results. 5 gallons in 50 second at 1200 rpm. But after I did the test I realized I did not reinstall the thermostat so that may account for the slight increase in water from the exhaust. Here's a video of the exhaust: exhaust video |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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Again, the amount of water out the exhaust will not change no matter what is going on with the thermostat.
water in = water out Thermostat only tells the water to go through the block first or not. If cold water goes in the block hot water exits. If not, cold water goes right out. You are not sucking enough water. Your system appears to be functioning at about 1/3 efficiency. What are your operating temps? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21107 |
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HW nailed it. It shouldn't take a minute to suck a bucket dry at 1200rpm... The pump should be pulling water much more quickly. I'm surprised you aren't seeing overheating issues. Probably time for a new impeller at a minimum, possibly a pump rebuild.
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Start with the easy stuff, with a nut driver follow the raw water intake from the pickup and tighten all hose clamps, check your strainer gasket and tighten.
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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The hose clamps are all tight and the strainer is clean. The way I'm testing the flow completely bypasses the strainer and transmission cooler. I took the hose loose from the bottom of the transmission cooler and I'm sucking water from a bucket with this hose, which connects to the pump. BTW I've never noticed any overheating. I should probably start by replacing the hose from the pump just in case there's a crack in it I can't see. Maybe it's sucking air. And just to be clear, the boat is on a trailer and not in the water. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21107 |
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The symptoms you are seeing are not indicative of an air leak. Impeller or pump. I'm surprised temps aren't creeping up while under load. Do you ever run the boat at sustained higher rpm?
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antique boater
Newbie Joined: February-27-2015 Location: Buchanan Dam Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Just a ski run now and then or an occasional haul ass to the smooth water on the other end of the lake. I've never noticed it going above 160°. But I'm not going to lie to you and say that I always keep an eye on the temp gauge. But I can usually smell the engine when it starts to overheat though. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Derris,
I agree with the new impeller idea. Someone mentioned the exhaust flappers on the tips and their influence of silencing the engine noise. That is NOT their purpose and do not quiet the exhaust. |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Good photos of how to install the riser gasket, HW. The simple rule is: "Match the gasket to the riser, not to the manifold."
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"Art"
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74Wind
Grand Poobah Joined: August-02-2011 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2101 |
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That doesn't sound right when you say "I can usually smell the engine when it starts to overheat". which implies it overheats regularly. |
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1974 Southwind 18
1975 Century Mark II |
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