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Aluminum Molding Needed

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    Posted: November-25-2014 at 12:30pm
Working on a 1969 Barracuda. Does anyone know of a source for the 1/2" L-shaped aluminum molding that runs along the inside edges? The original molding is missing a few large pieces and the rest looks like modern art. Any leads appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 12:32pm
A picture would go a long way for those of us that don't have 69 Barracudas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 12:35pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 12:53pm
I didn't see anything there I could use but thanks for the lead anyway. I haven't figured out how to post photos here but the molding is 1/2" x 1/8" L-shaped. It's thin...about 1/16" and can be formed around fairly tight curves. I need about 30 feet of it. If anyone can find it for me, I'll take you out to dinner when I win the lottery and just to prove I'm not cheap, I'll even let you super-size it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 12:58pm
OK...I get it! I just didn't pursue the molding options far enough. Yes, #5 is what I'm after. Now all I need to do is win the lottery and you're on your way to the Chez Golden Arches. I'm lovin' it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 5:13pm
Jan,
Have you posted any pictures of the boat? We love them so if not, let's see what you're working on. A diary entry would be great too.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 5:41pm
We started with the usual: a boat that had everything but needed everything. The stringers were mush and the foam was waterlogged. The old steel fuel tank had been leaking into the bilge for years and the wood was saturated with rotten gas. The wiring was an octopus of add-ons and splices. The 318 Chrysler was all apart and in such bad shape that replacement was the only smart decision...which we did with a custom-built 280HP/351W.

We're in the process of putting everything back together. Here are some progress photos:





















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 6:21pm
You've done a lot or work. Looks great! How's your son like working on it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 6:23pm
I agree just hope he didn't use pressure treated wood. Is it gel or paint?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 7:12pm
My son doesn't work for me. He restores Jaguar XKE bodies: monocoque-metalworks.com. I'm the guy who restored Mike Laur's 1962 pink Correct Craft Debonnaire. My website is nautilusrestorations.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2014 at 7:25pm
Jan,
Thanks for the pictures of the Cuda. I like Gary am curious too regarding the wood used for the stringers, if the hull was painted or gelled, any CPES for the wood, and the resin used. (polyester, vinylester or epoxy?) What did you put on the Teak platform? With the 351, is it a RH or a LH? I did go to your previous posts and did notice the posts on the Debonnaire. It's too bad the Rolls engine wasn't found.

Keep the pictures coming.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2014 at 1:05am
The stringers were made of pressure-treated Douglas fir that has been allowed to dry for as little more than a year...a LOT better than Correct Craft used originally. (I keep a rotating stock of DF treated 2x8s for stringers.) The finished stringers (all ALL the wooden framework elements) received two coats of CPES and were then fiberglassed using polyester resin and painted with two coats of Rustoleum floor enamel. The foam was over-filled and then cut to the top of the framework. All was then covered with 3/8" marine okoume plywood which was then fiberglassed to a point 4" up the bulkheads.

We used gelcoat to fill deep cracks and voids which was then sanded to 1200 grit and painted with PPG automotive paint.

The teak platform was stained with CC mahogany stain and then received five heavy coats of Epiphanes varnish.

The 351W is now standard rotation, prop and transmission changed accordingly.

Concerning the Debonnaire: The original Rolls Royce engine offered little, other than the name and originality...overpriced (WAY over) and under powered, zero performance options and extremely difficult to find and expensive parts. We powered with a 425HP 454CID engine and the intake, carb and Pertronix Flamethrower Distributor, coil and wires we added almost certainly took the HP to somewhere near 440. The Debonnaire leaps out of the hole and accelerates like a dragster...something the Rolls engine would never have allowed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2014 at 10:35am
Jan,
The one complaint I have heard many times with the Epiphanes is it's adhesion problem. Teak doesn't like any kind of bright non penetrating finish so I hope you don't have a problem! I think even Don Danenberg has had a problem with it!!

Why did you use the polyester resin?

What was the moisture content of the treated Fir? I'm glad you know the moisture is a key concern but I also know treated doesn't like to accept   resins. I am glad you used the CPES. Maybe that will bridge the resin acceptance. I'm curious about your input.

Yes, I know the Rolls engine would not have the performance of the 454 you used but it was the optional available engine. I'm sorry to see you don't restore your boats.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2014 at 11:34am
First of all, I work for the owners. I make suggestions/they make decisions. I like to think I do restore boats but I also think that originality is over-rated. Many improvements can be made that the factory never incorporated. Take a good look at the interiors of the Debonnaire and the 1986 Ski Nautique. I designed them, the owners loved them and the boats will last another 50 years if cared for. Some call it non-restoration? I call it customized restoration and preservation. To each his own but like I said, I work for the owners and the owners pay the bills...and that's all the explanation and justification of my work I'm going to offer.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2014 at 12:08pm
He does have a point Pete. If he was to restore them he be out of business fast, look how long it took me to find a original hour meter and how long Steve and I waited for our tach's to be completed. People are not going to pay to have their plastic boats held up that long. Keeping them long term does not matter either,it's more about the perceived "now" look anyway. I updated mine,realizing you can't make it something it's not,by buying the '95
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2014 at 12:23pm
Gary,
Yes, Jan does make some good points and he does the work per his customers needs.
Jan,
Thanks for filling me in on the your work. I'm still curious about your choice of resin. What was the moisture contend of the Fir for the stringers. Have you ever had any adhesion problems with the Epiphanes?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2014 at 12:57pm
Pete I've got 12 coats of epiphanes on the Hurricane and it doesn't show any signs of adhesion problems.   As far as I know Danenberg has been telling that story for years and it happened to one boat, there are plenty of people that use Epiphanes varnish with great results. It's all in the prep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2014 at 2:04pm
I ve used dried pressure treated wood for stringers and bulkheads on non cc's with good results. I like the idea of sucking some cpes in there, and I am not opposed to polyester for certain work, but I am wondering how well polyester sticks to cpes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2014 at 1:20am
My choice of resin is based upon this verbiage from US Composites:

                 404 Tooling Polyester Resin-Isophthalic
404 is an isophthalic polyester resin that is used where strength and durability is a must. Experiences lower shrinkage and a higher heat distortion temperature than orthophthalic type polyester resins. Used extensively in boat hulls and in fiberglass mold construction.

How well it sticks to CPES is anybody's guess but so what if it doesn't? It completely covers the wooden framework, making it impossible for water intrusion while adding strength. I think adhesion is a moot point.

As for varnish, I used to use Captain's but it's thin and requires more coats just to fill the grain to level. The Epiphanes is much thicker, requiring less coats. It's expensive but time is even more expensive. I've never had adhesion problems with Epiphanes. I used it exclusively on the Elco 57. As for varnishing teak, there's a big difference between teak off the rack and 45 year old teak. I've done at least a half dozen vintage teak swim platforms with Chris Craft stain and Epiphanes and never had complaints or seen any evidence of lifting or peeling.

I have no idea of the moisture content of the seasoned pressure-treated 2x8s. I do know that they are about 1/3 the weight of a new one, maybe less. I tend to think that very low water content is less important than the care taken to seal and cover the wooden framing elements. When finished, my "floors" are watertight. I don't believe in building water channels to the transom. Any "ditch" that can let water out can let water in.

Dannenberg is good, undoubtedly an authority, but not the nautical Messiah. There is plenty of wiggle room for alternative approaches to water tight integrity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2014 at 10:24am
Jan,
Thanks for the input. I do have some comments.

Keep in mind that polyester is hygroscopic and will allow moisture into the wood. At least the CPES is there to act as a moisture barrier but all surfaces must be treated. Especially the bottoms of members that touch the hull. The change to epoxy hulls in part was due to the moisture absorption of polyester as well as epoxy's higher strength.

CPES being an organic, there are no problems with resin adhesion. Besides a sealer, think of it as a primer as well.

You like the Epiphanes because of it's viscosity filling the grain better. On bright work, don't you use a paste wood filler?

Get a moisture meter. Yes, on the stringers you use treated which takes care of future rot issues but other wood you don't want to create a future problem. If the moisture content is too high (over about 8%) and then with a CPES coat, it creates a great "humidor" for rot. The rot spores are in the wood and all it needs is the proper environment.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2014 at 11:44am
Although we do the best we can to insure watertight integrity and longevity, the problem is money. (What else is new?) You and I deal with the wooden structure and concern ourselves with the details that will insure a competent rebuild. The owners bring me a boat with the "floor" intact but mushy. They want it fixed but have no concept as to what is involved. All they see is the floor and when we're finished, that's still all they see. The deconstruction, cleaning and rebuilding of the framework and decking of a fiberglass 17-footer requires about 80 man/hours of labor and maybe $500-600 in material. The resale value of a restored "fiberglassic" is generally about 25% of the restoration cost. Most of the time, a $7,000 invoice for a new floor is a damned tough sell and many owners have decided to sell out, rather than restore.

We do not restore show boats, although some have won awards. We strive for 95%. In other words, we bring a restoration to the 95% point, given that the owner will fund that level. The remaining 5% usually costs as much to achieve as the first 95%. Unfortunately, we now live in a throw-away society content with Walmart quality. Most owners "want it now"... quick, cheap, pretty and fast.

The boats we restore are about 50 years old. They've lasted this long having been built according to "factory standards." Ours are considerably more stringent and should allow another 50 years of practical use...long after the owners and I are dead, rendering the actual longevity moot to all concerned. Besides, restorers in 2064 will need a job too!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2014 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Nautilus Nautilus wrote:

the problem is money. (What else is new?)

I totally agree and see it many times where the restoration exceeds the boats value including many here on CCfan and the reason the "labor of love" projects.

Originally posted by Nautilus Nautilus wrote:

boats we restore

I don't feel you use the "restore" term correctly!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautilus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2014 at 7:43pm
This is getting ridiculous. You have either questioned or objected to nearly everything I have written. OK, fine. You win. I do not restore boats. I fix them up...make them pretty...make them seaworthy again...completely screw them up...whatever. The real point is that I save the boat from the landfill, make the owners happy and as a result, make a living.

All I wanted was a source for aluminum molding and for that information, I thank you. Having acquired the molding and subsequently been informed in so many words that I don't know what the hell I'm doing, it's obvious that I don't belong here and it's time for me to leave. Happy boating to you and should you run across a Correct Craft I have "restored," feel free to turn your nose up and sneer.

I'm gone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2014 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by Nautilus Nautilus wrote:



Having acquired the molding and subsequently been informed in so many words that I don't know what the hell I'm doing, it's obvious that I don't belong here and it's time for me to leave

I'm gone.


Nonsense, pleas stick around and continue to post your builds. Trying to please this crowd can be frustrating but all contributions are welcome, one persons opinion shouldn't drive you off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2014 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by Nautilus Nautilus wrote:

You have either questioned or objected to nearly everything I have written. I'm gone.

Jan,
I feel you are directing this post to me.

Please read this thread again. Hopefully you will understand that my questions were made out of curiosity. There are always different methods to accomplish the same objective. Some are better than others and make it though the "test of time". Others do not. I never objected to any of your methods but did state some opinions. If you feel different, then it would be great for you to give me specifics.

Do stick around since I feel different opinions and methodologies are valuable.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2014 at 11:20am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


I feel you are directing this post to me

Gee, ya think? Makes daughter cry, drives off new talented member, all in one day. We'll played sir.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2014 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Nautilus Nautilus wrote:

This is getting ridiculous.

I'm gone.


Stick with it... your find a home here, as with most forums there are opposite opinions/cliques that operate... but there is bigger silent viewing.
Thanks for sharing you findings on here...for others to decide what’s best for them.
      
Lets have a go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2014 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by 75 Tique 75 Tique wrote:

Makes daughter cry, drives off new talented member, all in one day. We'll played sir.

Larry,
Thanks for your input which is appreciated.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-29-2014 at 10:06am
I wish you could drive off the spammers as fast as you do interesting members..............
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