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GT40 stops after letting go of button

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rrichr View Drop Down
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    Posted: November-16-2014 at 3:39pm
I have gone through in as much detail as I can the Poor Mans GT40 section without the proper tools… I do not have a lanyard as it is bypassed and I even checked the connection of the wires as it was this way when I bought it. I checked the 20amp fuse at the battery and tried the jumper to the STO Connector and it does not seem to be turning on the full pump. I can make the engine run as long as I want by keeping my finger on the start button and it is only after I left go that it shuts off.

There seems to be some kind of panel way under the dash next to my bilge pump override switch but I am not sure what it is for.

I tried a new relay from Advanced auto and it did nothing different. I when around the engine looking for loose connections but nothing made a difference.

I plan on making some jumper wires of various lengths and to bring my multi-tester with me next weekend. I don't have any of those tools at the lake. I do not have a Star Tester to follow the diagnostic steps in the GT40 Manual..


It is a Boss 5.8 in a 2001' year Ski Nautique
Any help would be appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2014 at 6:25pm
I'd be the last one to know but I wonder if it's something to do with the key pad. Or something not sensing that it's running kills the power,kinda why I wanted to avoid having a key pad. I'm sure someone in the know will answer by tomorrow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2014 at 7:57pm
That's easy, Don't stop pushing the start button!

Would suspect the keypad like GearE mentioned but would also wonder if a low voltage issue? Have you gone through the electrical connections and cleaned as req'd??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2014 at 9:52pm
I pulled the connections to the key pad and re-connected them. I am wondering if the is another connection somewhere for the safety switch that is by-passed that has come loose? When I checked the purple wires in the harness where the safety switch use to be there were a total of 3 that where purple with one of them not connected to anything and the other 2 where spliced together.

So after sleeping on it I am thinking it is electrical... I must have fuel since I can start it and it will run for a little while.

I have this breaker panel but I really can't see how it works... many just be a tripped breaker (Part#S6289)



Would the "start run" breaker be an issue if I can start and stop after 3 seconds? I would think I would not be able to even start based on the name of the breaker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:14pm
If the lanyard or it's bypass was a problem I don't think it would run at all.

So you press and hold start and continue holding after it starts, does the starter remain engaged??

When you code up the keypad initially the green light should go on after your code and a single push of start, when you press start again that should be ignition, gauges should activate, you should hear fuel pumps prime, then pressing and holding start again should activate the starter.

Is this what you are seeing/hearing??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:29pm
No, the starter dis-engages when the rotation of the crank speeds up (I am sure there is a more technical answer)

All of the above is what happens eccept I don't hear the fuel pump buzz.... I did the first time I activated the keypad after being away from it for a week. But every time it will start and run for 3 seconds more than I hold the starter button. The green led light go on in the proper sequence, right led blinks w/every code number and goes solid after code and start button are pushed. When I push the start button again the left (port) led goes solid green awaiting you to start it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:38pm
Get a voltmeter already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:45pm
In my original post I spoke of what I will bring with me when I go to the lake. I would appreciate if you where able to provide me with points to use the volt meter however.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:50pm
Sorry, it seemed like this thread was older than it really is.

Fuel system. Battery -> pumps
Ignition system. Battery -> plugs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 4:05pm
Thanks Hollywood,

The actual plug? From a sequence perspective, becuase it will start and run, during? after it stops? or just for continuity?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 6:40pm
In a nutshell, compare running to non-running. You shouldn't have to recreate the wheel for running, I would think the manuals available should hint at probable component failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhersey29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 9:58pm
Do you have the distributor bonnet on? I had rpm issues and shut off when the bonnet was removed and the spark plug wire was a little too close to the thick film ignition module.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 10:21pm
I don't have a cover over the plug wires... I will have to get one, those have to be generic. I will put on the list, thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhersey29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 11:07pm
http://www.cjponyparts.com/distributor-cover-ford-5-0-1979-1993/p/DCC1/

Just push your spark plug wires on the port side towards the alternator and push the tfi-iv module wires away from the distributor to test. I found this issue using an intermittent ignition analyzer and took me a while to realize the module signal was getting really messed up by spark plug wires. You could also use a mtb tube cut in half to shield the ignition module wires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2014 at 11:49pm
Thanks jhersy29, will do... What is an mtb tube?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhersey29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-18-2014 at 12:10am
A mountain bicycle tube. 26 x 2.25 or anything close. Any rubber would work to shield the module.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-18-2014 at 12:12am
Gotcha, will try tube first and put distributor cover on the list.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-18-2014 at 12:28am
Originally posted by jhersey29 jhersey29 wrote:

http://www.cjponyparts.com/distributor-cover-ford-5-0-1979-1993/p/DCC1/

Distributor cover direct link


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-18-2014 at 10:09am
Ordered it... free shipping:)

All though I am not too confident that it will fix this problem it will sure avoid another. I would think if continuing to push the starter button and the engine actually settling down into idle and even the PerfectPass beeping saying it is ready my guess is I am going to find the problem either in poor connection somewhere actually off the engine.

Whoever worked on the boat last did kind of a messy job around the relays but it is obvious that there was some work done. I know for one thing I am going to get to know this engine and other than messing with my skiing I enjoy working on engines/boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-18-2014 at 4:16pm
it sounds to me like the 12v is powering the start cycle, but gets cut off when you go to the run mode.   if you had a key ign, I would suggest that your ignition is faulty, but since it is keypad start, I suspect that it is either an electronics issue that maintains the run power, or a wire that is missing.    Check for 12v at input to the ignition coil when the keypad is in the "run position" I suspect you will find 0 volts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-18-2014 at 4:46pm
So when I am in start mode (the port side led is green on the keypad) vs. actually pushing the start button while in start mode I should have power to the coil?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Dreaming Dreaming wrote:

...   Check for 12v at input to the ignition coil when the keypad is in the "run position" I suspect you will find 0 volts.


I agree with this check.

Lewy2001 can probably speak to this better than I, but I would add your oil pressure switch to the list of things to check.

When you're starting up, the oil pressure switch is over-ridden, because, you're obviously you're not going to have oil pressure until the motor is started.

Once it's running, you should have oil pressure, and if the switch is saying you don't, it's going to shut things down so the motor doesn't get wrecked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 1:54pm
Hmmm... I replaced my oil pressure switch about a month ago. I can disconnect that and still have the analog and see if it is the problem. Thanks

I had replaced it becuase the old one failed and it would put me into limp mode.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 2:25pm
About when did the 'stops after letting go' problem arise?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 5:17pm
Saturday... I have used the boat at least 5 different times since I replaced the oil pressure switch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

About when did the 'stops after letting go' problem arise?

Brian,
Your idea would have been too easy if the problem did occur when the pressure switch was replaced!   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 5:44pm
Hey, I appreciate the thought and am going to take the time to disconnect it just becuase.... I thought that switch basically told the computer if it was above 5psi and when it went below that with the boat running it would put it into limp mode. Does it do more than that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by rrichr rrichr wrote:

Hey, I appreciate the thought and am going to take the time to disconnect it just becuase.... I thought that switch basically told the computer if it was above 5psi and when it went below that with the boat running it would put it into limp mode. Does it do more than that?


That's a good point/question. If it puts it into limp mode, it would still let it run. So, I might be off there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 7:20pm
Brian from the described symptoms it may be a problem with the keypad and or PME Gateway box. I do not have the circuit diagram of a GT40 with this configuration. But as they still have the same EEC and fuel pump relay I assume that operation after the keypad and PME box is mostly the same as the standard ignition key GT40.

The keypad is trigger mechanism to the PME Gateway to distribute power. Most of the electronics are inside this box. It distributes the power to the engine and throughout the boat.

Test for voltage at EEC relay you should even be able to feel the relay click in and out with a finger. The 12V output from the EEC relay goes to the coil, TFI ignition module and ECM. It sounds like you are losing the activation power for the EEC relay so check terminal 85 on the relay for 12V. You will need to make up 4 short jumper wires for the relay to make testing easier with voltmeter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrichr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-19-2014 at 7:34pm
So if I don't have 12v at the relay when the port led light on the keypad is green (meaning it is in start mode) I have a problem either in the keypad, PME Gateway box or the wiring between them and the relay. Is that correct?

I am going to make a set of jump wires to add to my tools, I was thinking of various lengths with one end having an aligator clip and male connector on the other end, a set that has male on one end and female on the other. Any other suggestions of combinations? ends, lengths, guage?
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