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1976 PCM 351

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    Posted: October-27-2014 at 12:01pm
I have looked around this forum for some simple answers to my specific need, and cannot find the needle in the haystack. So, here it goes. I would like to eventually rebuild my 76 351. Wouldn't mind a few extra horses. Is porting the heads an option? Are GT40 heads the way to go? And, are there any rebuild "kits" available anywhere?

I understand that this is a major undertaking, with a reinstallation requiring lining up the block precisely and getting the flanges to the prop shaft to line up. I am mechanically inclined, but would need help understanding all of the "top dead center" stuff, what I should do, and what I shouldn't do. But at this point in time, I wouldn't mind chatting with someone that has gone through this before, and can give me a little insight/foresight.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, I really appreciate it.
ps. the engine probably has a good 4000 hours on it. It really doesn't burn oil, or leak anywhere, and actually purrs at 3600 RPM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2014 at 12:15pm
A good cam,manifold change,gt40p heads and Tom Monrow's book how to rebuild small block Ford engines
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2014 at 12:17pm
Welcome to CCF!

Why are you thinking re-build, especially if it is running well. How many hours are on it? Are you not happy with performance - which could be just tuning, timing, or prop sizing?

You will quickly find out we all REALLY like pictures here, so put some up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonyosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2014 at 12:23pm
Thanks for the response. As noted in my post, it has about 4000 hours. I am considering a rebuild before I am dead in the water as the result of a breakdown, 20 miles from any help. Also, considering a rebuild to get some more hp. Thanks to Gary S for your suggestions. I thought that GT40 heads might do the trick. And thanks for the reference to Tom Monroe's book! You can see some of my pics under general discussion forum, I'm down just a tad under 1976 Ski Nautique (complete trailer renovation).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2014 at 1:49pm
Tony, there is a lot of discussion about this on the site. If you find the search here won't get you where you want, try using Google and "correctcraftfan.com" along with the subject and sometimes that works better.

The intake, heads, and cam as Gary suggested is the simple way to add 50-60 HP to a 351. Not all that expensive, either. Engine removal and re-install are not hard at all, and shaft alignment takes some care but again isn't difficult.

Take a look in the Common Questions section, there's a thread about GT-40 and GT-40p heads at the top.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2014 at 2:07pm
Someone should dig up the link to Alan's 351w rebuild thread... Should have all his answers and then some.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 10:51am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Someone should dig up the link to Alan's 351w rebuild thread... Should have all his answers and then some.


351 rebuild
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 1:18pm
Just read Alan’s thread again and had to chuckle a little, the knowledge that has been gained since then is amazing.
Reading what was then pretty much uncharted waters are now just run of the mill everyday conversation, tear downs and rebuilds.
It’s great to see the people on this site not only learn but share all that has been learned with one another.
We’ve come a long way!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonyosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 2:14pm
And I do appreciate everyone's advise. I am on the fence as to whether or not rebuild the 351 as it is running nicely, even after 4000 hours. I understand that it had a valve job about 20 years ago, but that's about it. And really . . . is it really worth spending bookoo bucks to do an upgrade to gain 30-40hp? Different prop to match (another $600). The implications and considerations? Why would I really need a better hole-shot, when she performs just fine. I can easily get a 300# person up on slalom without problem. I am starting to lean towards a simple rebuild, if anything at all, unless there is overwhelming evidence otherwise. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 2:26pm
There is no evidence. You either want to do it or not. Clearly it's currently meeting your needs. A rebuild and upgrades aren't free and since you're the one paying you have to make the decision, not us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonyosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 2:42pm
I was not trying to pawn off the responsibility of a decision to the group. What I am hoping for is all of your experiences and wisdom, so that I can then make an intelligible choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 2:44pm
You're making a few bad assumptions.

1. If doing a full rebuild (top and bottom end), adding better performing parts (heads, cam) does not cost much money... The cost to refurb your old parts or buying new factory low-perf parts is about the same as the cost for better performing ones. This makes the extra hp essentially free to a point. Building for significantly higher hp levels will drive cost up, but if you're living in the <1hp/ci realm, it shouldn't.

2. More hp in the range being considered will not drive a prop change. Way beyond the >1hp/ci might... Adding displacement (stroker) almost certainly will.

3. If performance is something you care about at all, you'll want to upgrade to a modern CNC prop regardless of whether you touch the engine or not. They don't cost $600 either, more like $350 (new).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 2:52pm
If it can easily get a 300 pounder up on one then clearly you don't need the few extra horses you speak of. Plus you say it runs fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 2:54pm
Excellent answer by Tim! One thing I'd add - an engine with a ton of hours isn't necessarily a time bomb. If well maintained, and from your description of a smooth running engine that burns no oil I'm going to jump to the assumption its been well maintained, then there's no reason to assume it will fail. How many hours a summer are you putting on it? 100? Less? It may continue to run perfectly for many years.

So maybe the easiest decision is to just keep running it, put some money into a prop which will make a huge difference if you're still running an original style prop, and kick the decision down the road a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

If it can easily get a 300 pounder up on one then clearly you don't need the few extra horses you speak of. Plus you say it runs fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

How do you know he doesn't have a few 340 pound friends?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 3:06pm
Agreed. I've got a 74 351 and a 75 360. Neither ever rebuilt, both run fine. Always defer to tr Benjamin and the other wizards but In my humble opinion don't let the hours or age drive your decision. Do it when it actually shows signs of needing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

If it can easily get a 300 pounder up on one then clearly you don't need the few extra horses you speak of. Plus you say it runs fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

How do you know he doesn't have a few 340 pound friends?


Well, if he indeed does then I would refrain from comment. Or suggest they contact the Falcons , they could use the help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonyosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 7:08pm
So, it goes to show you how little I know about props. What I have read is that it is important to match up the prop with the engine, and some guidelines as to WOT, RPM and speed? Anyhow, I have attached a couple pics of my current prop. Maybe someone can ID it and know if I'm good, or could REALLY benefit from the above mentioned CNC prop. BTW, I do about 50-100 hours per summer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldSchoolBlue84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 7:25pm
Looks to be an orginal 13x13 Federal Prop.

As for an upgrade in prop, I would definitely listen to them, they know their props . I would not believe it until I went to the cc reunions.

I just upgraded to the 540, bought from delta for $360 with discount, but unfortunately will not be able to test it till next year

Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by tonyosis tonyosis wrote:

Anyhow, I have attached a couple pics of my current prop. Maybe someone can ID it

Tony,
Sorry but you can't ID a prop by looking at it.
Get the dia. and pitch off the hub end under the nut.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 8:04pm
You can't id size definitively from the picture but it's obviously a federal or MW. Even if it's the optimal size (13x13) it's performance is worlds behind that of an Acme.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 10:15pm
I had a 1978, sold with over 1,500 hours. I thought that was a lot but you have 4,000. Wow.
I upgraded my heads in 1984, went with Ford 289 Hi Po heads that had larger valves and had extensive porting done. It did bump the compression but it ran fine on premium fuel, pinged on regular.
The power bump was nice, seat of the pants says at least 30 HP and the torque was much better also. I turned a 13 x 14 prop and loved it.
My 78 burned a valve at 1,000 hours. Probably too much timing but I was young then and we are all allowed a couple mistakes in life eh?
If your oil pressure is good, exhaust is not smoking blue smoke. Run it and enjoy it. You must have taken great care of it over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 10:22pm
A lesk down test would be in order. If all cylinders are holding pressure well & oil pressure is OK, then just run it as is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonyosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2014 at 12:42am
I'm sorry, would you be so kind as to elaborate as to what a "lesk down" test is? I would highly appreciate it. Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2014 at 2:26am
It tests the ability for a cylinder to hold pressure, which indicates the health of the rings and that the valves are seating correctly. You pressurize the cylinder with compressed air with valves closed at TDC and see how quickly it leaks down, and whether it leaks by the rings or out a valve.

Chris, think it's necessary? If plenty of power, no oil consumption, and good oil pressure I wonder if he should just keep running it until a there's some indication of a problem. I suppose it would answer the question on overall engine health.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonyosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2014 at 5:46pm
Wow . . . $360 for a ACME prop??? I just got a quote for $577 for a 13x12 from them. Interesting that they are suggesting a 13x12. Gave them all the data and they said that this is what they would recommend, better top end and hole shot. Any opinions that would counter ACME? And how would I get a "discount"? The price is pretty much what I expected and mentioned above, so if any of you who think a prop should only cost 300-400, pleeeeeeeze direct me to a better source?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2014 at 5:51pm
The 540 is the right prop. Too much info has been shared previously to recount here... Try a search.

Delta propellor has great prices and we get another 5% off on top of that. Click the "links" at the top of the page for the code. When selling direct, acme sells at full retail to protect their dealer network.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2014 at 9:41pm
Tony - David answered your question regarding leakdown well. Like he suggested, it isn't really needed since your engine is currently running good. It is a cheap & accurate diagnostic method if you ever need it. The manifold needed is outlined on the internet somewhere.

If you do rebuild the engine, please take some pictures of the wear points (pistons, cam, etc) as we would be interested in how it lived so long.

BTW, what oil have you been using?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonyosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2014 at 11:06pm
Ever year changed with 20/50, along w/tranny oil, filter/water separator filter. Lifted the carb each winter, and so and so forth. VR1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2014 at 12:00am
Here is how to make your own leak down tester and how to use one.
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