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Mighty 390 Intake Manifold Question

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davidg View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-24-2014 at 2:49pm
Hey all! Over the past few months, I have been busy rebuilding the transmission and 390 engine from my '68 F250. I am in the process of putting the engine back together now. I noticed there was a pipe coming out of the intake manifold that was literally corroded down to nothing more than a thin rusted shell of the original pipe that crumbled when I put the vice grips to it.

Has anybody on the site encountered this type of water passage pipe on an intake manifold? The only pipe I can find to come close to it is 1/2" copper pipe to get an OD of ~.680 or so. I don't feel overly comfortable putting copper pipe in an iron intake manifold. Any thoughts on what might work? Iron plumbing pipe is too big. I would appreciate any thoughts on what to use.   

The pipe is under the short peice of hose sticking out of the front of the manifold. (I wish I had the computer skills to circle it).


The rebuilt engine on its way back up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 3:49pm
Dave,
How is the pipe fastened to the manifold? Can you tell if it's a press fit or threaded? If press fitted, it's is going to be hard since the hole and tubing need to be a close fit. The hole will need to be reamed. I would look into tapping the hole for 3/8" pipe and then use a pipe nipple. Get the remaining piece of tubing out of the manifold and carefully measure the hole ID then get back to us. 3/8" pipe OD is nominally .625 (.675" actual).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 3:49pm
are you sure its not still available? its press fit right?   if you really hit a dead end i bet you could pipe tap it and then make something that would stay put
former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 3:50pm
posted at the same time ......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 4:27pm
Thanks guys! Yes, it was a press fit pipe. No threads. I did get the old pipe out. I did pick up a 3/8" plumbing pipe nipple yesterday at Farm & Fleet to see if it would be close. It was close, but, a bit too large.

Just took a quick measurement of the hole. ~.620 at opening, and goes back to about .575 inside the hole. The pipe threads are around .670-.680 just as you say Pete.

Do you guys have any issues/concerns with pressing copper pipe in? It seems to be the perfect size from an od and id perspective. Just a straight shot. No curves or bends.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 4:37pm
Dave,
Tap the hole for 3/8" pipe. As mentioned, a press fit will be tricky due to the tight tolerance needed. The pipe tap will be cheaper than a expanding reamer as well.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 4:45pm
Thanks Pete! I will check into reaming it to the right size, then threading for 3/8" pipe. The id on the 3/8" pipe looks a lot smaller than what was in there. Do you think there will be any issues with lower flow...ie...overheating?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by davidg davidg wrote:

Thanks Pete! I will check into reaming it to the right size, then threading for 3/8" pipe. The id on the 3/8" pipe looks a lot smaller than what was in there. Do you think there will be any issues with lower flow...ie...overheating?

Dave,
The reaming is only needed for a press fit. The hole size is close enough for tapping with a 3/8" pipe tap.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 8:22pm
i think what he is worried about is the inside diameter of the 3/8 pipe as opposed to the thinner wall steel pipe ,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by davidg davidg wrote:

Thanks Pete! I will check into reaming it to the right size, then threading for 3/8" pipe. The id on the 3/8" pipe looks a lot smaller than what was in there. Do you think there will be any issues with lower flow...ie...overheating?

Dave,
I'd don't feel cooling will be an issue. What is it connected to? A heater hose?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 8:53pm
it looked to be the transfer tube from the water pump to the intake on fords.. if it is the intake heater it probably will never matter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 9:02pm
Pete and Peter....Just stopped by Ace, and picked up a 1/4" NPT tap (apparently the right size for the 3/8" pipe)....TBD. On the tap itself, it says drill the hole with a 7/16 bit. Got one of those too. I think everything might be one size too small though. Need to make sure before I rip everything out of the packaging. Ace is AWFULLY proud of their merchandise. Either way, you guys have me on the right track. Appreciate the help guys!

Pete....by the by, this is for my truck and not boat (the last I saw of my boat it was sitting in the warehouse at N3 boats in Indy). Zach stole it off me to part out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by peter1234 peter1234 wrote:

it looked to be the transfer tube from the water pump to the intake on fords.. if it is the intake heater it probably will never matter


Peter....thats exactly what it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by davidg davidg wrote:

Pete and Peter....Just stopped by Ace, and picked up a 1/4" NPT tap (apparently the right size for the 3/8" pipe)....TBD. On the tap itself, it says drill the hole with a 7/16 bit. Got one of those too. I think everything might be one size too small though. Need to make sure before I rip everything out of the packaging. Ace is AWFULLY proud of their merchandise. Either way, you guys have me on the right track. Appreciate the help guys!

Pete....by the by, this is for my truck and not boat (the last I saw of my boat it was sitting in the warehouse at N3 boats in Indy). Zach stole it off me to part out.

Dave,
It sure sounds like you got the NOT SO "helpful hardware man"!! 1/4" pipe will be too small!

Yes, I caught myself thinking marine engine! I went back within a minute and amended my post!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 9:53pm
How about all of you trying Google I might go out on a limb here but I have a feeling that the 390 Ford engine was not designed for marine use but in fact Automotive use in mind 3rd picture says 3/8" NPT. It's called a Intake Water Pump Bypass fitting







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 10:03pm
Google? Google?? Nope, not ringing a bell!

Come on Gary, I was trying to make this difficult! Please play along
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I have a feeling that the 390 Ford engine was not designed for marine use but in fact Automotive use in mind

Gary,
This is a quiz: What marine engines didn't start off using an automotive or industrial engine?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 11:21pm
As common as FE engines were back in the 60's and 70's, a lot of people no longer know much about them today. These people might be of help.http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2014 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

   
Gary,
This is a quiz: What marine engines didn't start off using an automotive or industrial engine?


I have one of these marine engines in the garage,no automotive or industrial as far as I can tell

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2014 at 1:51am
Gary...What year is that Merc? Late 40's/early 50's? Wait, I know, I will, as you say....google it?.

I had called Dennis Carpenter Ford (restoration parts) earlier today. They said that no such a part existed for what I described on the manifold bypass pipe. That's why I was going down the path of trying to rig my own. Well, as it turns out, and doing a thorough web search, I found a part # for the bypass pipe (a C5xxxxxx which is a '65 Ford part). Ended up finding several on ebay. Thanks to all for your help on this little sub project of the bigger project.      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2014 at 4:52am
I will never forget the 390 Engines with that intake manifold that felt like it weighed 200lbs as you leaned over a hood and tried to install properly without messing up the gaskets. Bad memories. Great running and powerful engines though. Switch to an aluminum intake and save your back. Money well spent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2014 at 11:44am
Mark...Yes, that thing weighs a ton. I am glad I don't have to install it with the engine in the truck. I did think about putting an aluminum intake on it, but, wait for it....It wouldn't be original then!! That would not be "Pete-approved"!

Seriously, I thought about doing a ton of stuff to it, but, in the end, I just couldn't justify the cost of a new 4 bbl carb, the intake itself, etc, etc. Just really wanted to keep it stock. I did put a Howard's RV cam in it. With everything freshened up, it should hopefully run like a scalded pup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2014 at 12:19pm
I bet it will look great all freshened up Dave. Where did you go to get the machine work done? The Merc is a 50 I believe,it's on a very long list to get at least a clean up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2014 at 12:29pm
Gary, I used Al's Machine Shop in Woodstock. Good guy, and he was very flexible with me. He let me come in to watch him take measurements, and even try my hand at a few as well. He only charged me $1000 for letting me help him!!

I am probably going to get the heads on this weekend. Got to get the tuck ready for the Merry Cary Christmas parade. I have been doing that for the past several years with our church.

By the way, where did you get that Merc? Was it your dad's?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SWANY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2014 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

   
Gary,
This is a quiz: What marine engines didn't start off using an automotive or industrial engine?


I have one of these marine engines in the garage,no automotive or industrial as far as I can tell


My guess is a 52 or 53'. Isn't it a 10hp looking at that trim ring?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-25-2014 at 10:48pm
Yes it was Dads,it's a KF7 they were built 49-50. They were advertised as 10 hp but put out approx 15. Last time it was out,in the early 70's I had it on a 12' Jon boat,it moved it pretty good but took the whole river to turn
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nice Bike..Heritage Classic?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-28-2014 at 2:59am
John...Yes. It's a '97 Heritage. Love the bike. It is so easy to ride, and rides very smooth. I am a big fan of the EVO motor. Don't you have a red Heritage as well?

Very nice day up here today, so I rode up to Lake Geneva, WI. Probably not many good riding days left up here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 5:03pm
I am getting ready to put sealer around the water passages on the intake manifold gasket. Any thoughts as to the best sealant to use?

I just bought a tube of PermaTex Black, but, not sure that is the best. Just wondered what you guys use on your engines?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2014 at 6:33pm
thats what i have always used since moving from the blue.
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