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Putting Antifreeze in engine mount holes

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Swansonhomesllc View Drop Down
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    Posted: August-24-2014 at 2:29pm
I know this is a very touchy subject but wondering on peoples thoughts on putting antifreeze in engine mount holes prior to CPES? After lots of research I have concluded this is a good solution to get some more time before stringers need to be replaced. My method. Antifreeze in holes to soak into wood and act as a bonding agent for the CPES. CPES in holes next. Fill remainder with laminating resin. Drill new holes and replace bolts.

The boat appears to have weep holes on stringers in exhaust bay. (you can see them in pic) I am assuming the antifreeze/CPES would wick out those weep holes? Can they be blocked off? Are they really needed? Everyone's comments positive and negative are appreciated!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-24-2014 at 4:28pm
I would say that antifeeze would be an anti-bonding agent.

A much better approach (without full tearout) would be to take a spade bit & oversize the hole, pulling out as much wood as you can. If you don't get to good wood, stop & prepare to replace the entire stringer.

If you do get to good wood, you might try soaking the hole with acetone (dries out wood) then filling the hole with epoxy resin + chopped or milled fiberglass.

PS, mark your spade bit with some tape so you don't get carried away & drill thru the hull. Laugh but others have done it!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-24-2014 at 4:50pm
Cpes already has it's own "bonding" agent from what it's made of. Antifreeze always feels oily to me and never drys completely if you spill some. Don't over think this,if it's rotten it's too late anyway, by the looks of them,they look fine -use it and have fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-24-2014 at 5:28pm
As the others, I feel the antifreeze is a bad idea.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 11:13am
Where did you get this antifreeze idea?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 2:51pm
And, did your research include and explain the 3 different types of glycol?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swansonhomesllc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 3:54pm
There are lots of articles on the internet supporting the use of antifreeze (ethylene glycol) on wood rot. The attached link is one that is worth reading. http://www.acbs-bslol.com/Gadgets/D97WoodRot.htm
Obviously it is always better to replace the wood but if you can gain a few years from a repair it is certainly worth it. I do know that people mist antifreeze on open wood areas annually as preventative maintenance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote audiodude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 4:32pm
I once read an article which said that fungus is the main cause of wood rot and that Anti freeze or sodium borate were good treatments to prevent fungus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 5:38pm
Is it me or does the stringer in the picture look pretty darn good? Where do you see rot? You mentioned that the bolt tightens pretty good, so why do you feel the need to mess with it??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swansonhomesllc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 6:10pm
The glass looks good......the wood under it is rotten. The 4 in the rear you can pull out with your fingers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 6:21pm
Joel-

Contact TimD. Tim has used a pour-able replacement wood method that is used on off-shore boat transom repair. If you are trying to salvage the mount and gain some time..... it would be worth consideration. I don't really know the product name or its immediate limitations, but it is worth looking into for this limited application.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 7:07pm
Sea cast is what I think your thinking of Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 9:38pm
why wouldnt you over drill it then cpes then an epoxy resin .Then drill for the bolts til you do the stringers. that cpes will penetrate quite a bit stop over thinking it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 9:54pm
Swans link to Bob's Land'O'Lakes Chapter

Add this to your research

I don't believe that Bob Speltz is talking about using this inside encapsulated fiberglass.

And, It sounds to me like Bob may be one of the "confused" as described in the other link.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2014 at 10:43pm
Thanks Gary.... Tim has done some cool repairs with it several years ago. He can tell you about pros and cons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chubbytug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 1:00pm
I used the Sea Cast product to repair/replace stringers in a 1990 wellcraft with a 390Hp Big block and it worked very well. I cut just the tops off and removed all of the old wood. Poured in the Sea Cast using the sides as a mold, and then capped off with new Fiberglass. The only downside was the cost as the Sea Cast was rather pricey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 1:57pm
That is my understanding of its use.... the fiberglass at the engine mounts can be left to maintain engine support, rot dug out, and Sea Cast poured in/around..... its like liquid Coosa! (that would explain the cost)

Interesting concept.............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 4:19pm
does the sea cast give the same rigidity that fir stringers would though? i understand the fiberglass tied to the hull lends some but doesnt the boat flex with wet rotten stringers? seem that the lack of the firs strength would lend to flexing and sea cast and gel cracking . i was always under the assumption that it was for rotten transoms only
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dangerwil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 4:31pm
Seacast makes amazing stringers. This guy did a excellent job on an old Arkansas Traveller.

Seacast stringers YouTube
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 8:32pm
amazing is amazing looking? but what i am asking is what is the strength comparison compared to wood . it seems to me that there is a flex and rebound to these hulls with wood stringers , does seacast crack when moved like a bow ( as in bow and arrow) or is the movement negligable   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 9:14pm
Coosa is made of sheet fiberglass and foam and is stronger an lighter than wood... it doesn't have an equivalent pourable counterpart that I am aware of. I have no experience with seacast but believe it to be pretty expensive and heavy. Whether it is a good choice for such a repair is probably debatable.

Cpes down the holes followed by epoxy resin thickened with a high strength filler would be my method of choice in this case.

Cc hulls are thick and small and dont really flex like larger, thinner boats do. I would not (and have not) worried about (re)building a boat "too stiff". Doug fir was sold as a dampening, flexing stringer material and that is probably true, but hollow fiberglass stringers seem to do just fine in Malibus. Cc used a healthy glass schedule over the wood from the 70's forward and I've seen a few boats whose stringers turned to mush and the only strength left was in the overlying glass... And they weren't about to fall apart. Now that the stringers are filled with foam, they seem to be just fine as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swansonhomesllc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 9:39pm
I agree with TRB about strength of hollow stringers. My guess is nearly CC boat prior to 93 has rot and will continue to get worse. How many do you actually hear about failing and sinking?   I just don't want the engine and trans twisting due to loose lag bolts. Once they are tight again I'll run that mustang for another 5+ years. Will probably be more solid than it's been in 20 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 10:17pm
I know somebody who uses sea cast for stringers and transoms. I understand Sea cast to be strong, more impact resistant and as far as the flexing.... I don't know if it flexes but even the manufacturer recommends it for stringers and like Tim says, these boats don't flex too much. It's screw retention seems to be like Coosa. At 202$ per 5 gallons seems to be inline with prices as far as I understand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Coosa is made of sheet fiberglass and foam and is stronger an lighter than wood... it doesn't have an equivalent pourable counterpart that I am aware of. I have no experience with seacast but believe it to be pretty expensive and heavy.


Tim-

I was using the "Coosa" analogy as a metaphor...... a "pourable" structural synthetic. While not an engineer, I understand it it not the same. It is reported to not be heavier than the dry wood it is replacing. True, It is expensive - esp. in comparison to antifreeze, and epoxy.....

I thought we were discussing options. Sea Cast is a product sold to accomplish the replacement of marine structural wood...... I haven't used it - so I can't praise or bash it. I rec'd the OP contact Tim D for handing and use opinions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2014 at 11:25pm
Understood Steve... But there are a whole lot of composites available out there, of which Coosa and seacast are 2 specific brands/products and they appear to have very different composition and properties. Probably best to use the generic term (composite) so as not to confuse the issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2014 at 12:17am
Originally posted by Swansonhomesllc Swansonhomesllc wrote:

   How many do you actually hear about failing and sinking?


It has been documented that the hull starts to show gel cracking where normally it does not occur. When found most seem to stop using before they fall apart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2014 at 12:26am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Understood Steve... But there are a whole lot of composites available out there, of which Coosa and sea cast are 2 specific brands/products and they appear to have very different composition and properties. Probably best to use the generic term (composite) so as not to confuse the issue.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2014 at 1:08am
I thought someone here was going cut the tops off their stringers remove the rotten wood and refill with seacast. I believe Pete told them not to do it,don't remember if they ever went thru with it. Or maybe they did and went down with the ship-----
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2014 at 10:00am
To me, it seems like digging out the wood within 2 walls would be as much work as slicing the glass at the floor & prying the stringer out. Sure you have to re glass, but then you know you have good adhesion.

Maybe peolple are talking about only doing only a small section, in which case 'sistering' would be an alternative.
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