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Need Help On Pricing - '91 Nautique Excel

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    Posted: April-15-2014 at 1:59am
Hello Correct Craftians,

I'm new to boating and after my more than addicting river vacation last year at Parker/Lake Havasu/Colorado River. I have decided to go for the plunge and buy my first boat. I was about to make the mistake and purchase a D-Drive but realized a V-Drive is more compatible with the activities I want to appreciate on the boat. Without having pesky ballasts rolling around the floor.

I went to go look at a 1991 Nautique Excel V Drive today. The boat is a 2nd owner, 350 V8 (260 hrs.), 2 batterys, perko switch, tower, basic marine cabin speakers, bimini top, mediocre gelcoat, interior is the original '91 pink and teal (needs to be replaced), hull in immaculate shape. Needs a bilge pump.

The guy is asking $10gs. I have been reading that V-Drives in 90's boat are hard to come by. Not knowing if thats true or not what do you think is a reasonable offer?

Thanks in advance,
Anson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 2:20am
Hello anson,

Do you have any pictures of the boat?

Perhaps a link to an ad?

Someone might be in the area that can help you inspect the boat before purchase. Even if nobody is in the area, there are a TON of posts here for pre purchase checklists.

With a little help and a lot of pictures, these guys can get you through just about anything.

Pricing a boat is very difficult to do without being able to see it. Get those images of that hot teal / pink interior on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 2:26am
Hmmmm. There are a couple of things that seem a little out of line with an early 90's boat for 10k....   I think that is pretty much top of the market for a wood stringer end boat...v drive or not.   The fact that the interior Is in need of replacement makes me think that this is about a 7k boat.   Pink and teal are going to be a bit of a hard sell too, so go in with your eyes wide open.   What exactly do yo do behind your boat? Wake board? Surf? Foil?   Excels are less common than sports or airs, but may or may not suit your needs well.   A pristine 2001 might be a good choice as well, especially if you have a tight budget. (Likely less than 8k).   Tell us some more about you, your crew size, and budget and we'll gladly offer some input to point you in the right direction.    Another thought...   Cali boats are fairly plentiful, especially in areas like sac'to and in the Tahoe area.    They don't necessarily command a premium.   Now is going to be about the top of the asking prices too....waiting a couple of months would be hard after such a great vacation last year, but will result in a lower price for the purchase.    Welcome aboard!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ansonsb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 4:40am
I want to get into surfing, wakeskating and wakeboarding. 2001 in my area go for $17k+. My crew size for now is just my girlfriend, australian shepherd and I. Maybe my brother and his kids if they decide they want to wakeboard, tube etc. I have been running into very high asking prices and I live 4 hours from Tahoe and 2 from Sac. I know summer is coming and people are asking high prices but askin ain't gettin. Yes it would be hard to allow summer to go by and not be out there being a PILT back slob. Thanks for the welcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 8:36am
It looks nice, but it also looks painted. You can do a search on this site about the pitfalls of painting a Nautique.

See if the owner will send you some engine pics.

That vinyl doesn't look too bad. It might not be your color preference but you're probably looking at $2-3k to get the entire boat redone. That's a lot of money that could be used for gas, beer, or equipment!

Nothing can replace a test drive and pre purchase inspection. It's really really worth it to find someone that knows how to inspect stringers, engine, transmission, and gel coat before paying $10k for a 23 year old boat. Depending on how much time you have and how mechanical you are, you could wind up paying a shop a lot of money in the long run.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 10:01am
Excels ARE hard to come by...esp ones that aren't beat to heck!

Excel is a lifestyle not a skiboat. If you want the lifestyle that an Excel provides, they are awesome. If you want a skiboat, they are not. Their trick/wakeboard wakes are beginner to intermediate (at best).....they are poorly defined and washy weighted down.

No Nautique is as comfortable as an Excel....period. As an beginning family watersports boat, they are fantastic. Most serious watersports folks will find faults with them (except their Barefoot wake).

The boat: make sure it is SOLID. They had poor fiberglass layup on the stringers under the rear seat. Check for dis-bonding and wetness (See Morfoot's video). It should sit in the water with the platform 4 to 6 inches above water.... (look for extra weight of trapped water in the rear near the engine cradle).

I dislike painted boats - it's painted but that is a personal preference and certainly lowers overall value on this site but often not in the rest of the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 10:11am
Looks like some non-original dash gauges, and interesting (Malibu?) swim platform. Teal primary and gray secondary colors were one of the most common color combo's for this model and year. I don't see pink - it SHOULD be a red trim piping. Sounds like a new engine - hours are too low and of course, they came with Ford 351s.

All that being said - Folks have paid between 11 and 16K for SOLID Excels. It is personal preference, availability and market around you. I would pay 17K for a perfect one....I didn't pay 8K for a rough one. I have been Excel shopping for 8 years.........I am ALWAYS Excel shopping.

YOU NEED TO DRIVE/RIDE IT! You will love it or hate it... (I bet love it - your wife will really love it for the comfortable, secure ride it gives.)

Excels don't fit the pricing model that these guys with the same old, average, run of the mill, direct drive Ski boats feel they should. They are special boats... unique, niche boats. Go look at it - they are cool!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 10:27am
BTW - A beautifully restored '91 BFN (454 Excel) just went for $13K... all original, no tower. A pristine one with 40 hrs went on Ebay for $16K... I paid 12K for mine....all original boat. I don't think my 2 buddies with Excels would let theirs go for anything less that $14K. At this point in my life, towers detract from an Excel's value - but for most of the world they add a lot to value.

So that is the "current" market for really nice Excels/Barefoots.... the question is how close to that does the boat come? how much do you want/need an Excel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhectus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 10:39am
Sounds like for what you are looking to do, a 1st or 2nd gen Sport Nautique would be best suited to you. Steve already very politely expressed it, but I will also candidly say. For surfing and wakeboarding, Excels suck. Especially for surfing. The deep v of the hull washes out the wake really bad. I remember quite a few years back wakeboarding behind an Excel and having a hard time because loaded down there is such a curl on the lip that you would literally have to plow "through" the top of the wake.
For barefooting, or a early evening champagne cruise with some friends on a big lake with some chop or rollers, you can't beat one of these boats. For wake sports....eh not so much.
I think much of the wake community is still under the false impression that just since it is a V-drive and a Nautique that it has an awesome wake. Fact is, as far as the hull, it shares very little with the Supersport/Super Air Nautiques that replaced it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 11:30am
Good explanation Brett.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 12:11pm
I think what Bret is trying to say is "it's better than an I/O"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 12:18pm
I think the title of the thread is "Need help on pricing"..........and in the original post he said that "he was about to make the mistake of buying a direct drive"..... that lets out Sport Nautiques.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 1:17pm
Anson, good boat, probably not $10k mainly because of paint. If you change your water sport focus to Barefooting (don't worry lots of guys to help you learn that), this becomes a very good boat. If you decide to stay focused on the wake sports, I think I would move on to something else...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhectus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Air206 Air206 wrote:

I think the title of the thread is "Need help on pricing"..........and in the original post he said that "he was about to make the mistake of buying a direct drive"..... that lets out Sport Nautiques.

Understood but he also said primary use was wake sports. I think a bigger mistake would be buying an Excel for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 2:46pm
Bret, Gotcha - I think if we are try to help a brotha out.... we should mention the SV211. It isn't a cramped Direct Drive boat (as ansonsb said he wasn't keen on) and it accomplishes the "all around task" fairly well for a 10 (or more) year old boat. If you are takin' nominations, I'll give ya' that one.

Let us know how your visit goes... Pictures are always appreciated and encouraged!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhectus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 3:06pm
Totally agree Steve, the SV211 is a phenomenal all around boat but that is a minimum $30k+ investment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ansonsb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 5:24pm
Thanks for all the quick responses,

it really has me thinking what I should do. I already went and looked at the boat. The engine looked like it was owned by somebody that doesn't know how to clean an engine but looked like it was in good condition and not rebuilt.

The interior is in worse condition than the photos look it to be. Vinyl is sun beaten and looked like a 90 year old mans neck. Granted I am going to try and get one more season out of it; its still a point to bring the price down. Obviously another way to have it customized to get the women wet; and I don't mean from the river!

I am very unhappy that the guy had a half ass paint job put on the boat. My plans are to wrap the boat (so it matches my truck) and save for a legit OEM retro paint scheme.

I will check for the way the boat is sitting in the water, thanks for the pointer.

I was watching videos on youtube of barefooting and I can't say I am not rather intrigued by it. I definitely would consider trying it.

I wish I could afford one of the brand new Super Air Nautiques. I would probably sleep in it for the first 3 months of owning it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 6:35pm
If that boat is how you say it is I wouldn't take it for half the price.
There's a ton of boats out there be patient find the right one, I think buying this boat is not going to make your first boat owning experience a happy one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

If that boat is how you say it is I wouldn't take it for half the price.
There's a ton of boats out there be patient find the right one, I think buying this boat is not going to make your first boat owning experience a happy one.

^^^I agree whole-heartedly.^^^

Originally posted by Air206 Air206 wrote:

Excels don't fit the pricing model that these guys with the same old, average, run of the mill, direct drive Ski boats feel they should. They are special boats.

You can count me in the group of run-of-the-mill-direct-drive owners that is apparently out of touch with reality when it comes to v-drive pricing.

That said, I pay close attention to the market as well and would bet that Bert is probably right about misguided expectations when it comes to this hull.
Originally posted by bhectus bhectus wrote:

I think much of the wake community is still under the false impression that just since it is a V-drive and a Nautique that it has an awesome wake. Fact is, as far as the hull, it shares very little with the Supersport/Super Air Nautiques that replaced it.

I have loved the look of the v-drive BFN since it came out in 1991... but unless I was looking for a footer + family cruiser combo, I have a hard time understanding how anything but the cleanest example would command anywhere near Super Sport/ Super Air money- and those can be had in the $15-20k range now.

This is coming from a direct drive BFN owner... all of the comments above regarding the wake are spot on. Its not a good all around boat unless your idea of "all around" includes barefooting and cruising in rough water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

If that boat is how you say it is I wouldn't take it for half the price.
There's a ton of boats out there be patient find the right one, I think buying this boat is not going to make your first boat owning experience a happy one.


+1

If this were a wakeboard boat I'd say maybe. But since you don't want to barefoot and there is clearly a lot of work to be done, I'd say wait for the next thing to pop up. It doesn't seem like you have much to gain on this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 10:45pm
As a run of the mill DD owner and a below run of the mill VDrive owner it seems high to me for a painted needs new interior 23 year old wood stringer boat with I assume a 23 yr old trailer. But because wake boards are the hot thing and G's are 100k plus it pushes up the used market. I ended up with a clean one owner low hour turn key with a new trailer. Unmolested clean vdrives are hard to find but are out there.
You should have been looking last fall because with the spring the price will surely be up but I think I'd keep looking.Good luck in your hunt.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 11:16pm
HA! I am surprised it took so long for you all to jump on that DD comment...   Glad you all are paying attention............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 11:30pm
Hard to pay attention when your shivering Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhectus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2014 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

   Bert

Ugh, first CQ and now you too?    I swear I was never on Sesame Street.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ansonsb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2014 at 2:59am
Is the Nautique Super Sport good for wake-sports? Is that more what I should be looking for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhectus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2014 at 10:19am
Yes, if you are set on a V-drive, the Supersport will make you smile all day long. Plenty of room, and a superb wake for boarding, wakeskating, or surfing. You'll be very happy with a SS. I had a '97 SS and it was a great boat. My wife is still a little mad at me for selling that one. My knees are still thanking me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ansonsb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2014 at 12:14am
******UPDATE******

I went down today to pull the trigger on the excel for the price I believed it was worth ($6,000). Needless to say, I left without a boat. The idiot who doesn't even list the boat as a VDrive has all of a sudden became a professional in pricing boats. So he told me his bottom line for the boat was $9200. I got my deposit back, left smiling ear-to-ear knowing I dodged that money pit.

At this point I am so exhausted of searching for boats. But you guys have me back on track, now I know I am specifically looking for and I'll be in touch. Thanks for all of your help and regardless of the brand I buy I'll be loyal to this forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2014 at 11:39am
don't be exhausted, the searching is the most fun part!there is a fairly good looking super sport on eBay currently. It's a little aggressive Lee priced, but you may want to start by looking at that and talking to him. Good luck enjoy the ride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2014 at 2:19am
There's a fairly rough 98sport here in Washington for 7k list....   It's been around a while , but might get you on the water this year.   Check that CL Finds thread.    Have fun searching, it is part of the initiation I think.    Lots of other brands that have a big following too, but, you need to make sure you don't assume all are created equal.   Test drive anything you choose and babe sure to ask questions.   A bunch here have experience with other brands and their quirks as well


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grkero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2014 at 3:33pm
Anson,

I PM'd you on Planet Nautique as well, but I figured I would post here as well. I have a very clean, well-taken care of, 1991 Barefoot Nautique v-drive not far from you. CCF for sale ad

Check your Planet Nautique PM I sent a link to more pictures.

-Grant
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