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1969 San Juan has a new home

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sam57 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sam57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2012 at 8:52pm
The SJ twin jumped right up on plain and the handling was good for a big boat. I never really got on to the correct use of the trim tabs and the turning radius was pretty wide at speed. My guess at top speed would be about 50 MPH. The controls were located next the the drivers right thigh with 2 throttles and 2 gear shifts in an area of about 4" X 4". This placement and design was p... poor and made tight maneuvering difficult to say the least. That aside, the twin SJ was a great boat that sounded awesome with those 4 copper exhaust pipes burbling like an old Chris.

Sam     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2012 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by turningpoint84 turningpoint84 wrote:

Originally posted by ny_nautique ny_nautique wrote:

Good catch Tim. That is the same boat. The front/back seats wouldn't fit with the motor box there.
RE the surfing girl in '66... how does she get back in the boat?
I'm going to have to build a platform and/or install a ladder. That rear railing is pretty tall.


Yeah I brought this up like 2 pages back, how the hell do you get back in? haha.

My grandparents own a 23' Cruisers Inc I/O, reminds me of this boat a lot. Except it was wood.



Geeze. You guys under 40.
We got back in the boat the same way as we did in Chris Crafts, Hackers, Trojans, Centuries and all the other inboards -
everyone carried a folding ladder that hooked over the side of the boat.
Very few used double boots back then. If you did, the rear was just small heal cup. You put your ski on after you jumped in the water, and you used a folding ladder to get back in.
If you forgot the ladder, you stuck a foot on a spray rail and someone grabbed your arm and pulled you in.
No big deal

BKH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2012 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by sam57 sam57 wrote:

The controls were located next the the drivers right thigh with 2 throttles and 2 gear shifts in an area of about 4" X 4". This placement and design was p... poor and made tight maneuvering difficult to say the least.
Sam     

Well, Sam, all I can say is you better not go for a captains license.

A twin is fantastic for tight maneuvering. What do you want, a bow truster???


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2012 at 11:19pm
I think he means the positioning of the controls were poor Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79SNbrady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 1:38am
I for see a San Juan Shortage! ive always wanted one and now i know what possibly will be my next correct craft purchase
"It's just water... not concrete or dirt... so just throw it"
-Parks Bonifay

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sam57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 3:28am
Pete,
Normally, the controls for a twin are in front of you with the port side on the left and the starboard on the right and you operate them with the right and left hands respectively. But when the controls for both engines are mounted low on one side out of your line of vision, it's a different story.

Incidentally, I had a 6-pack license but had to give it up when my heart went bad. I could get the license back now that I have a new heart, but I don't feel like chartering at my age.

Sam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AirTique98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 3:53am

     Many years ago a guy in our club [Chris Labonte...now deceased]] had a SJ with the twin 302's. I lined up my Nautique of the moment [can't remember if it was the '76 or the '81] to see how closely they ran and was amazed at how closely they did run!! Out of the hole the Nautique was quicker but not by as much as one might think and from a rolling start that beast ran right up with the Nautique!! Probably not 50mph as has been previously mentioned here but not very far off. All in all very impressive big old boat!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sam57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 4:44am
My twin 302 SJ came from Sandusky which is not too far from Avon Lake. It was the Sportsman model (no cuddy) in white with red upholstery. It may have been the same boat.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toeboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 10:46am
The drain plug is likely at the end of the hose attached to the porta-potty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 3:30pm
Hey guys... questions. I'm trying to figure out how to winterize. I've never seen this kind of cooling. There is one through hull intake that goes to the rear, into a U, and then back forward under the port side of the engine. I can't tell what it is doing after that.

This coolant reservoir on the stbd side... what is it? How does this system work?

Going to crawl around a bit more to see what's what right now.

- Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 4:08pm
Sea Maxx is closed cooling version of a PCM engine. Here is a manual
with a parts break down and diagram. http://engines1.novosolutions.net/print.asp?id=6&Lang=1&SID=

Cooling to the internal components uses coolant through a heat exchanger as your car uses a radiator. Freshwater is used to cool the heat exchanger (radiator) as there is no fan or air pushing over fins as you have in your car. I think that freshwater is also used to cool the exhaust manifolds.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 4:19pm
Thanks Brian. That helps. It does look like the freshwater cools the exhaust manifolds. I still can't find the through-hull drain.
- Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2012 at 6:42pm
Sorry, I should have been using the term seawater or raw water, not freshwater. BKH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-22-2012 at 12:10am
OK I was at it again today. I finally have 99% of the mussels and junk off the hull. I used an ice scraper today and it worked well. After my third trip to the power washer in the last 10 days, it no longer smells like the Atlantic Ocean.

The bottom paint was actually coming off fairly easy with the power washer. There are so many layers... the current black, which has several coats, and below that is a white and a blue layer. In some very small spots, all that came down right to the gelcoat.

I also came up with a few plans for lifting the engine. That is planned for Friday or Saturday.

So the weekend ended better than it started and the weather finally cooperated today. Also, the 3-car garage that I was planning on renting looks like it might work out. Unfortunately it's too low to lift the engine in there, but I can get it lifted at home or my parents house and bring it there.

A few other things I noticed:
  • There is exposed foam in the stern below the fuel tank. Obviously it is soaked.
  • The engine air intake comes from the scoops midship on the gunwale, and directs down the wall and into the engine box. Those hoses need to be replaced.
  • The 3-inch blower above the fuel tank wasn't attached to anything. The blower lines were all broken apart and crumbling, just like in my 84 SN.
  • We drained most of the fuel, there was some sludge at the bottom of the tank
  • The exhaust manifolds are toast... big chunks of rust were just falling off. I'm going to at least have to replace them. The risers seemed fine. It will NOT be fun getting those manifolds off.
  • I did find the drain plug and it was mostly water that drained... very little oil. Joe said most of it went overboard from the automatic bilge.
- Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2012 at 9:26pm
I got the engine out today. It was not fun. Ended up hanging chains between two trees and using a chain fall to lift it. That worked out fine, but it just took a lot of time.

I wonder if this engine is even fixable.
-The exhaust manifolds are completely rusted out.
-The oil pan needs to be replaced.
-The heads look very rusty and maybe need to be replaced.
- The plate between the bell housing and the block is so rusted out that it had a huge open gap. (what is this called?)
-Fuel line was about ready to burst.
-So much rust and corrosion on the transmission
-One of the transmission mounts is broken and probably not fixable

Pics:













- Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2012 at 9:38pm
Curious to see the pics. If you need heads, manifolds, etc. but the block, crank, cam are ok plus the EFI system is workable, seems like it might be worth a rebuild. 350 parts are certainly easy enough to source.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2012 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by ny_nautique ny_nautique wrote:


I wonder if this engine is even fixable.
-The exhaust manifolds are completely rusted out.

Have you pressure checked them or are you simply looking at outside surface rust?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2012 at 9:51pm
Haven't checked them yet Pete but huge chunks were just flaking off everywhere.
- Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2012 at 10:05pm
Pressure test or not Pete,saltwater manifolds don't last
long and to go with a rebuilt engine,he should just get
new ones.Once the salt gets in the castings you can never
get it out, it keeps leaching.He might be best to cut them
off.

Jeff it seems you Easterners prefer the two tree method
of engine removal as opposed to the Midwest's one tree.
Yours will be archived



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2012 at 10:12pm
Forgot to mention that it does look better cleaned up. You might also be on the lookout for new or used freshwater motor mounts,those will be tough to repair,the actual threads will most likely be rusted away
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2012 at 12:14am
Like the notched transom, like a Southwind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2012 at 1:14am
Can I simplify this engine and make it fresh water cooling now?

Gary - I wish I could have found one tree that worked well. One branch would have been much easier than running the span with chains across the trees.

I should have just put an ad in Craigslist looking for someone with a bucket loader or lift. I probably could have gotten it done in 1/3 the time.

I could tell the threads were bad on the rear mounts. The fronts look salvageable.
- Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2012 at 1:26am
Originally posted by ny_nautique ny_nautique wrote:


I should have just put an ad in Craigslist looking for someone with a bucket loader or lift. I probably could have gotten it done in 1/3 the time.
I could tell the threads were bad on the rear mounts. The fronts look salvageable.


I think the threads on the rear are fine thread,thats why they rusted easily. With the tree method your not waiting on someone else and then feeling you have to hurry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sam57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2012 at 5:41am
When I built my house 20 years ago I had 2 of the garage roof trusses engineered to each support 1500 lbs. in addition to the regular snow load. I then installed an eyebolt through the ceiling to attach to each of the 2 special trusses located over the front lift ring and rear lift ring of a boat onto which I can hang a chain hoist. To pull an engine, I position the engine under the front chain hoist, lift the engine, and roll the boat out from under the suspended engine. This has worked out for me many times over the years with never a problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2012 at 11:12am
Originally posted by ny_nautique ny_nautique wrote:

Can I simplify this engine and make it fresh water cooling now?


You mean raw water cooled, right?

"Fresh water" cooled is actually antifreeze cooled.

And "Raw water" cooled is actually fresh water cooled. Kind of confusing.

But yes, I would think that if you'll be running it in fresh water you could run raw water cooling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turningpoint84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2012 at 11:23am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Pressure test or not Pete,saltwater manifolds don't last
long and to go with a rebuilt engine,he should just get
new ones.Once the salt gets in the castings you can never
get it out, it keeps leaching.He might be best to cut them
off.

Jeff it seems you Easterners prefer the two tree method
of engine removal as opposed to the Midwest's one tree.
Yours will be archived



I think it's a north south thing.

Pine trees vs Oak trees. :)
Proud 1968 mustang owner and now
1970 Mustang
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nautique frk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2012 at 2:40pm
Awesome looking boat !! Can't beat Free !! That motor has got some good rust on it, are you going to get new maifolds etc and rebuild
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2013 at 10:00pm
It's been a while but over the last few weeks I've remove the SJ off my brother-in-law's trailer and have it blocked up on a concrete pad.
I just got a chance to explore a bit yesterday and wow is it mushy.
Check out this video. Don't forget to select HD.


- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2013 at 10:10pm
So looking back at John's pics from this Fish Nautique thread, it looks like his FN was just plywood and paint for the floor and in the engine compartment. Could it be that they made these this way?
- Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ultrarunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2013 at 12:58am
You got some work there Jeff....like you didn't know that :-)

Look forward to coming over.
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