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1960 Atom Skier Fin Boat Recondition

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2016 at 3:15pm
Jack,
I've got to ask was any work like a rebuild ever done on the YH's? What were they doing or not doing?. When I rebuilt mine, I wasn't having any problems. The engine started and ran great. I just figured that at 46 years, it was time to open up the carbs. After the rebuild, I did open them up for a final float adjustment. Again, please understand I'm not encouraging you to keep the side drafts. but just curious.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2016 at 3:43pm
Pete both carbs were rebuilt. The cleaning was well done and the carbs worked well from the start. I have revisited the float adjustment and double checked the set. Pretty sure they are spot on. I think maybe a float wants to stick open not really sure what the problem but randomly for no apparent reason it starts to flood gas out the back carb. This raw gas ends up in the bilge and that is not cool. I know there are folks out there who have the magic touch and I an no idiot when it comes to mechanics but I have had a couple fires at the dock and this will not be repeated. Even one is too many. Last one started with the suppressor both on so either the boat goes on the shelf of we come to some kind of resolution pronto. Damn thing is a bomb at the moment. We also have the Starflite with same setup. At the time being I have had it with the side drafts even though I was weaned on Carter single barrel down drafts which were essentially the same bird. Always interested for your input and there is always room to learn thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2016 at 6:34pm
When I read this:
"randomly for no apparent reason it starts to flood gas out the back carb. This raw gas ends up in the bilge and that is not cool".
My level of concern greatly increased. There are a handful of boats on this site that are truly unique. It would be a shame to lose one. I would not start it again until that issue is resolved. I'm curious, why would you want to repower it with a SBF? If you go downdraft and marine carb on the 312 would be a great period correct engine. . They have a unique sound for some reason, at least in automotive use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2016 at 7:00pm
Hi John, what I really want to do is just find a suitable carb replacement that is downdraft. The 327 is a real good runner and strong. Love the way it sounds. Rest assured the boat will not even be started again with the current setup. As I said it came with an operational four barrel and I have the complete setup so the manifold and all are good. I may look for a suitable four barrel because I don't believe the Holley that came with it was marinized. Funny the side drafts are far from marinized but acceptable even more desire able. I have to scratch my head sometimes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2016 at 7:53pm
My mistake Jack. I thought it was a Y block. You jarred my memory. 327 sounds great, I understand you want to take very good care of those manifolds lest you end up at the welder like I did with mine. $$$.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2016 at 8:45pm
i would just venture a guess that any mechanical pump on any v8 will supply plenty of gas to any 600 cfm edelbrock. I hope my guess doesnt bite me in the butt
former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2016 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by john b john b wrote:

My mistake Jack. I thought it was a Y block. You jarred my memory. 327 sounds great, I understand you want to take very good care of those manifolds lest you end up at the welder like I did with mine. $$$.


I hear that John. Part of the reason I don't want to give in on this fine power plant. I got over $1k in the manifolds sourced out and repaired by Pete's guy. Was happy to even get them as they are another unobtanium part it seems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2016 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by juniorwoody juniorwoody wrote:

Originally posted by john b john b wrote:

My mistake Jack. I thought it was a Y block. You jarred my memory. 327 sounds great, I understand you want to take very good care of those manifolds lest you end up at the welder like I did with mine. $$$.


I hear that John. Part of the reason I don't want to give in on this fine power plant. I got over $1k in the manifolds sourced out and repaired by Pete's guy. Was happy to even get them as they are another unobtanium part it seems.

Same guy I used. They came back looking nice, all they need is an engine to put them on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 5:22am
Do I not understand boat judging, or is an electrical system upgrade allowed without a deduction but the fuel delivery/ignition system is not? Nice that at least you can have a marine alternator dipping its armature into fuel soaked bilge water rather than the "sparkler" type automotive model.
I'm just sayin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 9:24am
Originally posted by john b john b wrote:

Do I not understand boat judging, or is an electrical system upgrade allowed without a deduction but the fuel delivery/ignition system is not? Nice that at least you can have a marine alternator dipping its armature into fuel soaked bilge water rather than the "sparkler" type automotive model.
I'm just sayin.

If I read right what you are saying John, I agree it seems to run against logic that a safety change is allowed by judging standards for electrical but not fuel delivery. I am pretty dedicated to keeping things original so the next owner coming along gets a the true flavor of the original, still I think that safety must come first. Good point you bring up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 9:47am
Screw the judging. ACBS doesn't care about Correct Craft anyway. Carbs are bolt ons, it's not like your spraying metal flake on the wood or installing a tower. If you have all the original parts to sell with the boat, it'll make no difference when you sell. Side drafts have always had an issue puking out gas. Interceptors answer was to design the valley pan to catch the gas. Ken Meloon told me a story how he had a 1960 Atom with a 150 hp Interceptor, (2 downdrafts) and removed the rear carb because it was always puking gas, and that was when the boat was new. Downdrafts are original and cool looking, but how many little fires are you going to get away with before one turns big?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 10:26am
[QUOTE=Riley] Screw the judging. ACBS doesn't care about Correct Craft anyway. [QUOTE]
Come on Bruce. You really don't know what you are talking about. Yes, they do care. Maybe you have just run into some of the east coast ACBS snobs? Tell me, if they don't care, why have I received so many awards including best of shows? BTW, best of show is a judged category.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 10:32am
I could answer that, Pete, but it would be pure speculation...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

I could answer that, Pete, but it would be pure speculation...

Then speculate. I'd enjoy hearing your opinion.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 10:37am
Honestly Pete I start to feel like your boat is more of a trailer queen than an everyday ride. I asked you a short ways back how often you use it and you never responded. Think you know most of us like originality but are not purists to the extent it takes from the experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 10:42am
It's a little known fact that Pete has recently repowered the Atom with a 4 cylinder Mercruiser pirated from a Bayliner, complete with the Mercarb that came on it..

He painted it the same color as his original engine hoping nobody would notice.

And...............................he put in a Pertronix module too.

I just don't know what this world is coming to.

Be safe with the new carb Jack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 12:00pm
Jack,
Sorry, I must have missed your "trailer queen" question. This year is the first year the Atom hasn't been hung in the boat house since the house project has taken priority. Past years when ever I was up here the Atom would go out weather permitting. Yes, pretty much cruising the lakes but also if my daughter was up, she loves to slalom behind it. Skiing behind it is a WOT with no extra for turns! I never GPS'd it but estimate it will do about 35 without a skier. BTW, the only time it got wiped down is when it was going to a show.

Ken,
You must have a spy watching me! The 4 cylinder Merc does make the Atom fly! I'll GPS it for you.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Ken,
You must have a spy watching me! The 4 cylinder Merc does make the Atom fly! I'll GPS it for you.


Well, it's sort of a spy, you may have seen it around the yard or following you down the lake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2016 at 9:50pm
I find when i go to car shows with my vette that people flock to it because its the right yr. the odd color, and I am fortunate to have the car that I never ever thought was attainable to me. it came to me with the wrong motor so i have taken certain liberties with it since. it has an updated suspension. a motor that would make the original small block pee its pan it has an overdrive transmission coming soon for driveability (avg 2000 mi per yr) all but the well educated think the car is original . I will say however that when i park it and walk away I gravitate to the matching numbered rare car that has people buzzing like bee's around it.. At the end of the day I drive it home . if we have dinner plans after it and its raining we still go... do what your gut tells you is right. as I have said before leave the option to make it right for the next lucky person and drive the sh%t out of it with whatever makes you feel safe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2017 at 2:00am
Is there any activity with the Fin Boat? It's always time for an update or a photo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2017 at 10:29am
Hi John, thanks for the interest. The fin boat is comfortable in the pleasant Florida climate and under my carport awaiting the engine removal. I plan to do that in the very near future. My little mishaps last summer have left me with no choice but to pull it to facilitate the cleanup of the bilge and get a new coat of paint on everything. When I reinstall the engine I plan to put a new 4 bbl. She also needs varnish desperately so that is on the agenda as well. If I find the energy to get it done it would be nice to take it over to Paramores in March. Time will tell. There are other boats to work on and this one has taken more than its fair share of my time.
I am also in the process of installing a boat lift with slings in my carport. It is the same type we use to hang boats in our boat covers down here. Pipe and cable. I think it will be very effective in flipping a boat And I have a few flips coming up down the road. Also think it will be a big help lifting a boat off the trailer to service either one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Fuel pump should not be an issue. Our Classic was a basket case that did not have a motor box when we got it. We are using the glass box from the Cuda as we had to use a wood box for the Cuda when we converted the Cuda from a 318 to an FE Ford. I like the glass box in the Classic, but if we were going to build a wood box for the classic, I would copy one from the old brochures which have the raised center for the down draft carb.

Paul Waters has also converted his 312 to a downdraft and his engine is really nice, as has Alan in the Hurricane. The Edelbrock carbs aren't as popular as the Holleys, but they cost less and run great right out of the box.


I have the engine out and the bilge cleaned and ready to repaint. No damage on the wood. The raw water intake hose was oil impregnated and seems to have been the source of the fire once it spread to the bilge. That needs replacement. also need new spark wires as the rear carb fire burnt a couple. Have been shopping the carbs, would be nice to save a few bucks and I have been considering the Edelbrock or a rebuilt. Looking for suggestions in this area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 10:35am
Jack, I look forward to seeing you sometime so you can tell me the stories of these fires. I bet it makes better conversation than bee stings. I hope your wife wasn't with you as it's got to be difficult to get her to go for another ride when it caught on fire the last time.

Put out a WTB in the parts wanted section and maybe someone will have a decent used carb.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Jack, I look forward to seeing you sometime so you can tell me the stories of these fires. I bet it makes better conversation than bee stings. I hope your wife wasn't with you as it's got to be difficult to get her to go for another ride when it caught on fire the last time.

Put out a WTB in the parts wanted section and maybe someone will have a decent used carb.



Thanks Bruce, Perhaps we will see each other this summer. You are so right about the wife in the boat. Fortunately I was the only one both times. Burton got to see the first one and helped get a fire extinguisher. Have lost a little sleep thinking about the possible worse outcomes and feel I was lucky to have been alone. Never again!.
I will post an ad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2017 at 9:45am
Ha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2017 at 10:20am
That is exactly how it seemed to happen Bruce. I know there are others more capable of getting this setup to work than I am. I read somewhere how one time Ken Maloon had the rear carb removed because it was puking gas regularly and the boat run fine with the one. I am thinking I may have added to the problem with seat of the pants fine adjustment on the distributer while running WOT. This may have advanced a little to much and caused pre ignition. Live and learn, but I still had a leaker that only made it worse. I have the engine back in now and the cleanup and painting done. Have replaced a few hoses and when I get the carb will be back running I hope perhaps early this summer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2017 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

I was talking with Jim Harris and he was saying that part of the problem is that both carbs open up at the same time and if you nail the throttle from a slow speed or idle, there may not enough vacuum to keep up with the gas supply and that can cause a pop and puke the gas back. .

Never had the problem nor heard of it from other dual YH on 312 owners who have the rear float level set properly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2017 at 7:56pm
I concur, we have run the gen1 with 312 and dual YH's and trust me, I have done a LOT of hard throttle hits from idle or slow speeds... sounds like something is not adjusted correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2017 at 8:00pm
I wouldn't think it would over load them too bad as they're just puny 1 barrels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2017 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

I wouldn't think it would over load them too bad as they're just puny 1 barrels.

Bruce,
"puny" !!! Well, they drive my 312 in my X55 as well as all other X55's close to the 55 MPH mark!! Is that puny? BTW, our local ski club ran a X55 for 4 years as their primary tow. PLENTY of WOT's from idle without problems!! Jim is good but in this case, he's off in the wrong direction. With the YH carbs, you can not set the floats per the Carter instructions.


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