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OSB vs Exterior plywood

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john b View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: OSB vs Exterior plywood
    Posted: May-07-2012 at 5:31pm
I have a very strong opinion about the suitability of OSB for use where there is the potential for exposure to moisture. I have an example here.
About five years ago I built sides for my utility trailer out of 1/2" exterior plywood. While not ideal because of the voids. it was not made to be particularly long lasting or visually pleasing. Two years ago when I was hauling some stuff to the landfill I needed a cover for the trailer. Being that I had a sheet of 1/2" OSB that I had no use for, I fashioned a top from it. Here is the result. Remember, the sides are about 5 years old and the top is 2. Both have been exposed to the same conditions as they are used together and stored outside.
Here is the trailer, a Triton single place torsion axle snowmobile trailer.

Here is a close up of the edge of the OSB top after a 726 mile round trip to the cottage and back two weeks ago. Note that with the de-lamination from the elements, it suffered wind damage

The other leading edge corner.

The top surface.

And here is an example of what a void will do to plywood. This is why I always use marine plywood. It is made from Douglas Fir, and has no voids.

Any questions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 6:04pm
No offense to either of the two partisans but IMHO
Waferboard has no legitimate use in any boat, whether it has been covered, coated, cpes injected under heat and pressure, or otherwise..

Coosa has no business being in a wooden boat.. and yes it can get wet- that is why it bonds well to resin, no it can’t absorb any appreciable amount of water.. if you aren’t going to cover it with glass it would be worth giving it the quickest of brushes with resin if it can contact something you don’t want it to transfer wetness to..

Marine plywood is generally, but not always a waste of money as compared to exterior grade plywood for uses such as a covered floor, or any glassed component.

In my experience anyone putting down a floor in either wood or fiberglass boats that will be wrapped in vinyl or carpet and screwed down to the subfloor should simply get some pressure treated plywood and just let it dry in the sun for a bit before gluing on the flooring. It will easily outlast the flooring material without additional treatment and generally costs less than exterior grade with cpes, or marine plywood alone.

This is not the same as creating a stringer/floor system to replace the foamed/glassed floor that is directly carpeted on later model boats… those floors should be made of resin friendly materials and should primarily be held in place by direct bonding to the stringers and floor supports.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 6:12pm
Well said Joe...The cost difference is just not worth it, especially if you are going to wrap it with glass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 6:27pm
The floor in my junk Skier was made of OSB when I got it. At least thats my best guess. It was a *little* tricky to identify. But thats what some of the chunks looked like that had fallen into the bilge. I would rate it pretty far down on the structural scale though... the only thing holding the floor together was the foam underneath and the carpet above (where applicable- note the hole).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

No offense to either of the two partisans but IMHO
Waferboard has no legitimate use in any boat, whether it has been covered, coated, cpes injected under heat and pressure, or otherwise..

Coosa has no business being in a wooden boat.. and yes it can get wet- that is why it bonds well to resin, no it can’t absorb any appreciable amount of water.. if you aren’t going to cover it with glass it would be worth giving it the quickest of brushes with resin if it can contact something you don’t want it to transfer wetness to..

Marine plywood is generally, but not always a waste of money as compared to exterior grade plywood for uses such as a covered floor, or any glassed component.

In my experience anyone putting down a floor in either wood or fiberglass boats that will be wrapped in vinyl or carpet and screwed down to the subfloor should simply get some pressure treated plywood and just let it dry in the sun for a bit before gluing on the flooring. It will easily outlast the flooring material without additional treatment and generally costs less than exterior grade with cpes, or marine plywood alone.

This is not the same as creating a stringer/floor system to replace the foamed/glassed floor that is directly carpeted on later model boats… those floors should be made of resin friendly materials and should primarily be held in place by direct bonding to the stringers and floor supports.   


I agree with this man right here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 7:14pm
John,
You forgot to CPES and put a layer of glass on all the sides of that top you made for your trailer!

BTW, that's not OSB but as Joe mentioned incorrectly is waferboard!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

BTW, that's not OSB but as Joe mentioned incorrectly is waferboard!

Pete, according to this bulletin the only difference between OSB and waferboard is the orientation of the grain.

While that clearly makes a difference in how strong it is in any given direction, I fail to see how OSB will better survive in a marine environment. Isnt that what we were talking about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

John,
You forgot to CPES and put a layer of glass on all the sides of that top you made for your trailer!

BTW, that's not OSB but as Joe mentioned incorrectly is waferboard!

That is true, Pete. It is Potlatch OXBoard. Only the lack of orientation is different. I also failed to CPES the sides and they have held up well, except for where the voids have held water.I can't imagine doing a restoration and using a product such ad this to save the price of a case of beer or a 1/4 tank of gas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hussler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:


In my experience anyone putting down a floor in either wood or fiberglass boats that will be wrapped in vinyl or carpet and screwed down to the subfloor should simply get some pressure treated plywood and just let it dry in the sun for a bit before gluing on the flooring. It will easily outlast the flooring material without additional treatment and generally costs less than exterior grade with cpes, or marine plywood alone.



That is exactly what I plan on doing for my floor I will be making the entire floor removable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 7:50pm
Moving right along, here is my last project from 6 years ago. It's my 1964 Mark Twain that I am replacing with the Mustang. When I bought it it needed a total restoration, which I did. Here is the floor when I got it. It was made with an engineered wood product. a beautiful sight to behold in the hold. It was only held together by the glass shell on top. Luckily the boat had hollow core fiberglass stringers so it was just a case of cleaning it up and screwing down a new marine plywood floor treated with CPES. It is much better now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

BTW, that's not OSB but as Joe mentioned incorrectly is waferboard!

Pete, according to this bulletin the only difference between OSB and waferboard is the orientation of the grain.

While that clearly makes a difference in how strong it is in any given direction, I fail to see how OSB will better survive in a marine environment. Isnt that what we were talking about?
Tim,
Yup, that bulletin pretty much explains it just like I have.
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


OSB is made in layers just like veneered ply. Each layer or veneer is laid up by orienting the grain of each piece (strand) which is then bonded with an adhesive and pressed into a veneer. These veneers are then stacked with a 90 degree alternating grain direction just like plywood is. The number of layers determines the thickness needed. These veneers are then bonded together just like ply. Take a close look at the edge of OSB sometime and you can see these layers. The end result is a product that is highly controlled and consistent and is so consistent, that it will exceed certain specs of plywoods.

It just like ply needs to be sealed.

John,
Yes, for the price of that beer or gas, The cost difference isn't much but it's still a difference. Someone on a real tight budget might be interested.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hussler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Someone on a real tight budget might be interested.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 65 'cuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 9:04pm
OSB, Waferboard, whatever, it has two things going for it, Its cheap, and it sucks, sucks up moisture.

It is not: Strong, stiff, tough, resilient, or long lasting. It does not hold fasteners, adhesives, or coatings.

I could literally kick and claw my way through a sheet of it, try that with a sheet of plywood. I hate using it for it's intended purpose. Do not put any of in a boat for any reason!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 9:07pm
OSB has become standard wall and roof sheathing in typical, average new construction, but high end homes are still specd out with plywood for some reason. Pete, where did you hear about using OSB for marine use?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 9:40pm
Bruce,
I haven't heard about OSB for marine use. I also haven't ever heard about LVL for marine use but it is used. Both are engineered wood products.

These high end homes you referred to, they don't use any engineered products like "I" joists or LVL headers? No LSL or PSL for columns and beams? How about OSL for rim boards?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 11:08pm
Pete, didn't say no engineered products. Just not OSB for exterior sheathing despite its much lower price compared to CDX. High end homes tend to use a lot of engineered products, but not OSB for the exterior sheathing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 11:21pm
I reckon y'all should read this:
For the record I have known Hugh for many many years. I last saw this boat when it was just framed from scanltings>up.

http://www.saintcustomboats.com/MissOSB.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 11:30pm
dont forget advantec    what is that stuff penetrated with?     it does make good underlayment but if it gets soaked befor the roof goes on even that product swells..    Pete a tight budget? come on now you are grasping at straws..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hussler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Bruce,
I haven't heard about OSB for marine use. I also haven't ever heard about LVL for marine use but it is used. Both are engineered wood products.

These high end homes you referred to, they don't use and engineered products like "I" joists or LVL headers? No LSL or PSL for columns and beams? How about OSL for rim boards?


Actually due to the burn rate of wafer board and OSB they are usually avoided in more expensive homes. Especially Engineered I beams. My local fire department sent out a letter requesting that they to inspect homes that were built with engineered I's, they burn out in the middle and the building collapses very quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 11:48pm
Oh Pete. Feelin' for ya on this one. Very interesting thread though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2012 at 11:56pm
I have been told that I haven't been around very long so I should do a little reading up but I know cabbage when I see it and that is all that OSB is worth to a shipwright. I feel somewhat vindicated as I read this thread.I guess it's going to be hard to get anyone to admit that they used it at this point. Those that hardily defend it seem quite suspect. Just looking for a followup on long term performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2012 at 10:47am
you never know who owns stock in what company.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2012 at 11:11am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Nice! Miss OSB I like it


Cool boat, but if the guy did not have "stock" in the company would he have made other choices? I am bettig the boat builder has not used it since. Plywood is an engineered product also. Nothing wrong with engineered. LVL is far superior for a header/beam than a standard joist. the question is the superiority of plywood or OSB near water.
For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2012 at 11:40am
Miss OSB is certainly a good looker and must have been a real challenge to build. She is not however a good example of OSB use in boat construction. Missing in the presentation is the fact that the owner an OSB manufacturer, used a special blend in the formula that included more resins. You can't buy the stuff. This special blend also rendered the boat very heavy. Lets try to give good useable advice on this forum. In a pissing contest nobody becomes a winner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2012 at 11:48am
Originally posted by juniorwoody juniorwoody wrote:

Missing in the presentation is the fact that the owner an OSB manufacturer, used a special blend in the formula that included more resins. You can't buy the stuff.

Jack,
I wondering where you picked up this information? Any documentation?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2012 at 12:06pm
It is right on the website in the article text ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2012 at 12:17pm
Joe,
All I found in the text is this statement: "the oriented strand board used was special in that it was made of hardwood chips and waterproof resin." Am I missing something about "a special blend in the formula that included more resins"?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2012 at 12:25pm
Very interesting boat, but hardly evidence that OSB is appropriate for marine use when the owner of an OSB plant has a boat custom built to use his own product. How much you think he saved using OSB? You can't argue with a guy that thinks he's got three legs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2012 at 12:32pm
I followed a ink on the topic in Boat Design.Net. Can't seem to find it now. You might want to read also Guideoun(sp)Bros chapter 5 and what they say about OSB use in the boat building industry. You can make a barn door fly with a large enough airplane engine on it also.
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