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318 chrysler rotation

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 318 chrysler rotation
    Posted: April-14-2012 at 8:06pm
I have a 318 that got with a boat that I never had running. It had a car air filter on it and a vacuum distributor on it. The firing order was hooked up for reverse direction and it had a starter that was spec'd out as a ccw starter but turned cw. Never seen that before. (part #2875927 on the starter) When you hook it up to power the bendix doesnt extend because it is rotating the wrong direction.

So I want to get this engine running one direction or the other, either would work fine for me. I have 1 to 1 transmissions and a 1:23 transmission I bought off ebay way back when.

Like I said, I have never had this running but did a compression test when I got it and tried to get it to run but wouldnt work keep running. It acted like it would try but never run. So it went into storage. The hull went to the landfill due to being too far gone. It was a barracuda.

What has to be done to switch directions on one of these engines? I really need to get it going. I have a american skier that needs power. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2012 at 9:31pm
Welcome to CCfan. Is the AS you have the manufacturer or is it an AS Correct Craft?

If the 318 came out of a Cuda, then it would be a RR engine. The RR firing order is telling you that as well.

You must have gotten the bendix problem fixed because you said it does try to start but just will not. Looking at the flywheel from the aft end, a RR engine will turn clockwise. Which way is it turning? If in fact you have the wrong rotation starter, that's a good reason for the starting problem. Does it pop back through the carb?

I would not try to swap the rotation of the engine. Get it going and just get the proper prop for it. With a 1:1 trans, a RR engine will swing a RH prop.


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77 Tique

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Homey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2012 at 10:25pm
The title says nautique, but it has the little metal american skier on the dash. So I figured I would call it an american skier. It for sure is a correct craft.

The 318 came out of a cuda years ago and I spent a half a day just messing with it trying to see if I could get it running. I dont know if it had ever made it into the water with this engine. It really looked like a car engine swap. I never took the starter off and ran it in my hands way back when I got it. This was many years ago so I barely remember messing with it.
All I can think to do is to take the starter to a starter shop and get them to tell me if it is right. I have never had a ccw starter turn cw.
ccw starter would make the flywheel turn cw so again if the starter was right, the engine would be right for rr.

Also the manuals in the manuals area say this engine, a 318B should have a carter AFB and this has a little round 2bbl carb. So again I think this is a car engine which would not be reverse. Maybe they swapped out a blown block or something.

Thanks for the reply, I hope I can get this running one direction or the other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 8:16am
Paul,
If it was a automotive engine swap and the PO just bolted on the exhaust manifolds, trans, etc, then there would be a rotation problem. He was trying to make a standard rotation block run as a reverse!

With very few exceptions, CC in that era used all reverse rotation. It wasn't until they started to use the reduction trans's they used standard rotation. The trans reverses the output so they still run a RH prop.


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 9:29am
I'd take a valve cover off & verify firing order, then you will know for sure what you have. The PO may have used the RR starter over on a LH engine, who knows.

Good luck!
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Homey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 9:44am
Now thats a good idea! Its going to rain today but I think that is the best next step along with having the starter checked out Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 9:56am
I dont know if he may have been running it standard rotation and reversed it in the prop and transmission pump. I do know that the pump I took off (transmission pump)was positioned with the fat part at 11 o clock as apposed to 4 o clock. I dont know which is which but I have two 1 to 1 transmissions each set differently. But the biggie here is I never ran the boat in the water and had no way to verify the previous owner ever did.

I like the idea about taking off the valve covers and verifying that the proper valves are closed. I guess that would confirm what it is supposed to be if it uses a different cam for reverse rotation.

Plus there is no tellin whats under those valve covers. Hopefully not rust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 10:09am
The pump on the trans can be indexed for right or left hand rotation, but that does not mean you can make a right hand rotation motor turn a left hand rotation prop and get proper direction. If if you have right hand motor you index the pump for right hand rotation and vice versa. There is a section in the manual that does a much better job of conveying this. It even has pictures with it Check it out in the reference section.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 10:12am
Reverse Rotation 1-2-7-5-6-3-4-8

Standard Rotation 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2

Actually a much quicker method would be to take plugs out, & put your thumb over appropriate spark plug holes, while someone turns it over with a wrench. Sorry I didn't think of this before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 10:22am
so set it to 1 under the cap with pressure, remove plug two, turn it backwards and if it pressures up its reversed. That sound right?

I dont expect to be able to make this carb work so I am banking I will have to put another intake on it to use a carter afb or some 4 barrel carb but would like to get it started to verify its a good engine before I spend anymore money on it.

I will look again for information on the pump for the 1 to 1 tranny. I thought you could swap the pump, swap the prop and be good to go with a opposite rotation engine.

I do know whith all my bones, I have everything. No idea if it is any good anymore but I do have lots of parts. Need the american pickers to come clean this stuff up. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 10:32am
To check firing order, turn it in the direction you think it is supposed to turn (CW when viewed from behind for RR). Find compression stroke on #1. Then #2 should be next. If not, it's a LH. If you get to this point & want to be really sure turn it CCW & see what cyl follows #1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote politicallycorrect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 10:32am
If the manufacturing tag is still on the engine it'll give what the rotation should be in the serial number. The pump on the velvet drive should have indexing marks that will say LH or RH. The transmissions rotations are oriented from the front of the trans so a pump indexed to the LH is being turned by a right hand motor. Does the motor have the aluminum oil pan from a marine engine?
Is it definitely a 318. A 273 would look a lot like a 318 but might have come with a two barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote politicallycorrect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 10:43am
According to this website That 318 and 273 up to 65 would have had a carter bbd 2 barrel. So the carb could be original to the cuda. Guess you'll know for sure when you turn it over and find out which way the cam is supposed to be rotating. carb doctor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 11:03am
I will look on the engine but only saw the one on the bell housing. If I can figure out how to post pictures I will post one of this carb. If I can put a kit in it will be cheaper than a manifold. I havent seen one like it but then again I havent seen a 2 barrel carb on a 8 cyl boat engine. I have a collection of carter AFB from volvo penta engines.

I will look for indexing marks all I saw was up on both the top and bottom of the pump. Like I said before, it has a fat part of the pump and it is at 11 o clock. I have the tranny that was connected to this motor. I remember the seller telling me it was slipping. So I have another 1 to 1 that is good but the pump looks to be opposite. I will get a handle on it and get it all put back together soon I hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 11:28am
Originally posted by Homey Homey wrote:

I thought you could swap the pump, swap the prop and be good to go with a opposite rotation engine.

This is a common misunderstanding by people that are not familiar with how the typical marine trans works.

Just as Bill mentioned, the trans will NOT reverse the rotation of the engine. The pump indexing is simply so it will pump fluid and build pressure according to the engine rotation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 4:04pm
Woo hoo its reverse!

compression goes 1 to 2. Now to figure out why the starter number is correct but turns the wrong way.

Here is an attempt at pictures. Let me know if you have seen the carb before.
This is the transmission I plan on using. Can you tell if it is configured for reverse or standard? I will be looking at the manual after I get rolling so I am sure.









This is the image from the manual. I had not seen this before. My two transmissions dont have letters on them they have arrows on them. My transmission looks like it will have to be rotated to work on this reverse engine. Good information thanks!



I really do appreciate all of your help, I feel much more comfortable working on this engine with your information.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 4:55pm
On the pump housing you can see the arrows for rotation and it says "top". Put the arrow that points in the direction your motor turns your pump on the top. I can't make out which arrow is where by your picture. This info is on page 40 of the bw manual I believe. As always, check twice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 10:10pm
I found a different diagram on my starter that showed it turning the correct way for a reverse rotation engine. So I have the engine spinning now. No fire at the distributor so that will be next.

I also figured out that this strange carb is a Holley 6280. Dont know anything good or bad about it, is anyone running one?



I did locate a two barrel holly carb I would like to use but the base plate is bigger. Does anyone know if there is an adaptor plate to reduce this model down to fit on this intake? The more old parts I can use the better I like it.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote politicallycorrect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 11:01pm
Looks like the pump is all ready set up to be spun by a right hand turning motor. The arrow is pointing to the left when you look at it correct?
I've got a marine intake off a 318 that had a carter afb on it if your interested in it. Little rusty from sitting but should clean up nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quik225 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2012 at 11:26pm
The first Holley carb shown is a 2245, from around 1983. The second is a 2300.

The 2245 has the same base as the small Carter BBD, which was used on earlier 318 LA motors. I prefer the BBD over the 2245, mostly because the 2245 uses an untunable power valve, the BBD uses tunable metering rods.

I think there is an adapter for the big 2bbl carb to small 2bbl intake made by Trans-Dapt. You won't get much of a performance increase with an adaprter. You will be going from large to small, there will be a bottleneck restriction with the intakes BBD/2245 sized throttle bores being smaller than the 2300's bores.

Two other ways you can go.
1. Find a good BBD for the existing intake.
2. Install an aftermarket 4bbl intake. Use an adapter with the 2300, or no adapter and a Marine Holley 600 4bbl.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2012 at 12:04am
Thanks for the info. I would prefer to swap the intake since I have a bucket of Afb carbs but if I break a bolt off in the block it sure will be a bad day. But it would be great to look at the innards of this engine before I go pushing it hard and having it blow up on me or bend something I could have prevented.

Politicallycorrect I sent you a pm

Thanks for the information
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