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Not another Mustang restoration thread.

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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2017 at 6:30pm
Don't know if it matters but also think that a car is running a water temp of 200+    being where you'll be running you will be lucky to hit 120
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2017 at 7:33pm
I'm leaning on the knowledge here pretty hard recently. I am not familiar with marine alternators of the 60s/70s. I have two alternators to choose from. The alternator on the left was on the 69SS, It has shielded brushes and armature contacts, although the design is a bit weird. It looks like a marine alternator. The alternator on the right was on the boat I'm repairing. I don't know if it is a marine alternator. It doesn't have the shielding I am familiar with. It is an Autolite and it has been rebuilt. The date stamp looks like 04/25/82. If anyone would like to share their knowledge I would appreciate it. The original carburetor and fuel pump on the boat weren't marine models so maybe the alternator wasn't marine either, or maybe it was replaced by someone with an automotive rebuild. I would like a nice safe alternator on the boat, possibly it would be better to just buy a new one. I'm not fond of explosions or dead batteries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2017 at 8:18pm
Mine is like the one on the left. When my mount cracked I resisted the urge to replace. My shop was able to find another housing in his dead pile and got it up and running. As far as I know it's a marine unit built by Prestolite. If I remember right the HM parts book shows two different units being used. I think even the wiring diagram shows different wiring between the two different ones. I will look and see if I have a copy here on my PC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2017 at 9:57pm
Here it is,says on the right side Wiring diagram shown for Autolite charging system delete light blue stator wire for Prestolite system. So you'll have to look and see if your alternator from the 70 is a Autolite and go from there,get the model number off it and see if it's a marine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2017 at 10:04pm
Thank you Gary. The Prestolite is the correct one. As suspected the Autolite is just an automotive reman from the 80s. The auto electric shop I was at today tested my Prestolite and it charges but has noisy bearings. He says breakage is common when did-assembling them for rebuild. They can build a nice 1 wire that looks pretty good with the old fan/pulley on it. May have to do some work to get the ammeter to work and I don't think it will be damaged if it pegs with a modern 85-100 amp output. What to do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2017 at 8:55pm
Turning to the fiberglass, I made progress today, cutting the disbonded fiberglass from the stringers and removing the the crossmembers that will be replaced with a plywood floor after cutting them down 3/4". I am a bit concerned about the starboard stringer. It has absorbed a lot of oil in the area where they neglected to encapsulate it in fiberglass. I hope the new fiberglass will bond to it. The boat got an extra hole in the stringer to drain the battery tray. I guess they measured once and drilled twice. I submit that fiberglass prep work is one of the worst jobs out there. I am looking forward to laying down the new glass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swilliams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2017 at 9:14pm
John, you're that close, why not just pull them and make new ones? I ran across that with my 69' Resorter and felt I couldn't get a good bond. I tried that with the wood keel it had in it and I had to bleach the crap out of it to open the pores to get it clean enough. Now that's nasty work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2017 at 9:37pm
I'm confused John,I thought the plan was to leave the glass on the sides temporarily and use them as damns to flood the area with cpes ? I think Pete has mentioned that cpes would work on naturally oily woods,maybe this would be much the same. Will have to see what he thinks.
Steve I believe several members who are knowledgeable have stopped by Johns and I think they thought they were in pretty good condition to reuse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2017 at 4:13pm
I picked up my rebuilt Prestolite alternator today. The shop did a nice job rebuilding it. I also received my marine wiring harness a couple of days ago. I debated cleaning up the original harness, repairing some marginal spots, and re-using it, but I think this new one is the answer. It will be just like the original when finished with a plug in harness for the instrument panel, one for the engine, and a center section to connect the two. I hope to get started on the wiring next week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swilliams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2017 at 7:10pm
Nice harnesses John! Who did them for you? Trying to find original harnesses is tough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2017 at 7:12pm
Ebasic and Pcm sell them... the latter you can get thru SkiDIM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2017 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Ebasic and Pcm sell them... the latter you can get thru SkiDIM.


Leave it to Tim, It's from Ebasic. I bought two harnesses. I could have bought one with 2 termination harnesses for the engine and instrument cluster, but it was less expensive to buy two and cut one in half. It allows more flexibility to create the proper length so it terminates properly and the plug connections are in a desired position. The one termination harness (top left) is left over from my supercharged rotary powered boat project from many years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 7:28am
John,
Ever since you mentioned you wanted to keep the existing stringers intact in the hull, I've tossed the idea around wondering about your logic. Now that you have posted the pictures of the stringers, I too suggest just getting them out of the hull. Yes, you may be able to use them again and yes, there's a good chance that CPES will work of that oil soaked area but test first. Getting them out of the hull would give you a clear shot at grinding the old glass on the hull giving you a good bond for the new glass on the stringers. BTW, I'm still wondering about your logic!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 8:23am
Disagree with Pete. Absolutely no friggin way I'd pull those stringers out for the boat if they're good enough to reuse. Use lots of acetone on that oily spot, rough it up, CPES and glass over. DONE. You can prep the bilge just fine with the stringers in place.

I assume you'll be wrapping the tops of all stringers with glass (even in areas the factory did not)? That would be a big improvement that would be well worth it imho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 8:47am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Disagree with Pete. You can prep the bilge just fine with the stringers in place..

Timmy,
You can crawl around the stringers better than John and I. You seem to forget the age factor of both of us!! The stringers are almost out now FCS!!! I think you just like to disagree with anything I say and others as well!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 10:00am
Not being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable.... that seems like it would be rather unhelpful. We are going through a similar project currently and came to the same conclusion- not armchair quarterbacking. Main stringers stay put! Wood is solid but glass needs some attention. Removing and starting from scratch adds a significant degree of time and difficulty.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 10:56am
I hope before you move forward with that promo you go back and read the advice John got for his Mustang. Between mold spores, glass that has delaminated and floor height, you got your work cut out for you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:07am
Tim,
What's the moisture content of the wood you plan on leaving or wrapping back up?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:09am
Ha, we got a handle on this one Bruce... not our first rodeo.

No rot or wet wood in what's remaining... even the foam was dry. We needn't discuss this boat in John's thread- if and when we need to get some input, we'll start our own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:16am
How can you tell if the wood is wet or not without a moisture reader?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:21am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

How can you tell if the wood is wet or not without a moisture reader?

Couldn't be any cheaper than this!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:23am
The same way you can set timing without a light. It just has to "feel" good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:26am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

The same way you can set timing without a light. It just has to "feel" good.

So Tim, you are a pro with feeling wood making it feel good?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:30am
You can tell it has been a long winter for those northerners
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:53am
The stringers are staying put. They are very solid except for where the rear engine mounting bolts pulled on the port stringer. If I were to replace them I would use Coosa. To go that route now would mean there is no chance of getting the boat in the water this year. I have some concern about the oil that has soaked into the starboard stringer, but it is a small area about 1' long and I am going to deal with it with sanding and acetone. I propose that properly encapsulating the stringers in fiberglass provides significant strength to the boat, even if the glass dosen't bond to a small area. There are a lot of Mustangs running around with potting soil for stringers and other than the engine being loose, they seem to work. The Mark Twain I restored about 10 years ago had hollow core fiberglass stringers bonded in place and they were no thicker than the glass encapsulating the Mustang's stringers. The Mark Twain was a very solid boat. So right or wrong that's how I have decided to do it. If I had unlimited time I would do the Coosa job but the reality is I just don't have the time. The family wants to enjoy the boat and water sports, and I am sending the Supra back home this year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 11:58am
John I think you're on the right track. Not sure the factory glass layup was thick enough to offer full strength in the absence of the wood core (have seen several boats whose engines were falling through the glass when the wood underneath had deteriorated), but you can address that with your new layup. Multiple thin layers vs minimal thick ones, plus epoxy resin will be huge upgrades in strength. Totally agree that even if that small oily area doesn't bond, you'll be ok. But I bet it will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 12:22pm
Tim, I agree that it would take a significant fiberglasss structure to anchor the engine and support its weight. The Mark Twain was an outboard so hull stiffnes and holding up the floorwas the stringers only function. I also believe that bonding 3/4" ply from just forward of the engine to the toe board will create an I beam structure with the floor and the hull resulting in greater rigidity than new. I will see how it goes and post the progress. Thanks to you and Pete, you both make good points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 12:52pm
John,
Be careful using Tim's method of acetone on the oil soaked area. If not absorbed, all it will do is liquefy the oil, run down and spread into other areas evaporate and you still end up with the oil. The method I've used and suggested several times is to make a poultice of fine "oil dry" (you can grind it finer than it comes and it works better) and a solvent like toluene. Acetone is just too "fast" and evaporates way too fast. Prep the area with the toluene and then putty knife on the poultice. Let it dry and vacuum off. Do this several time. It will draw out the oil. I also suggest drilling a few holes through the oiled areas and filling them with a thickened resin. This will tie the two sides of the new glass together just incase the bond you get with the new glass isn't the best. Don't forget the CPES!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 1:35pm
Of course he would need to absorb the oil into a rag Pete, talk about stating the obvious! I wouldn't overthink this... a few minutes spent with an acetone soaked rag should be all it takes to get ready for CPES and glass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2017 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Of course he would need to absorb the oil into a rag Pete, talk about stating the obvious! I wouldn't overthink this... a few minutes spent with an acetone soaked rag should be all it takes to get ready for CPES and glass.

Obvious? Really? Some may not catch on so maybe it would be a good idea if you were more descriptive? BTW, how many oil soaked wood boats have you worked on?


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