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mdvalant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdvalant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2011 at 10:08am
The report is in! Like I said earlier I can't really comment on our tach numbers because are tach is not trustworthy. So, feel and top speed are all I have.

First: WOW!!! Cannot believe how much smoother it is throughout. from 0-45 no vibration, smooth clean power. Also, unlike with the 90, this boat has the power to turn the prop when slamming the throttle pulling a large number of skiers.

Top speed on the GPS was 45 with myself and Dad in the boat, which is average. Around 25-30 is where I notice the big difference. Motor isn't rapping out and still has a lot of room on the tach to go faster.

Feels great! I want to test out our 654 but will be reluctant to take this one off...
'90 Ski (sold)
'00 Sport
Mississippi River - Bellevue, IA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote echobravoecho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2011 at 11:11am
For what it's worth, I just used an Auto Zone tool loaner propram pulley puller to remove my stock prop from a 93 SN. 50 buck deposit, zero cost to me after I returned it. It was a tight fit, but it worked.

It took longer to jostle the puller and prop to a location where all the bits would clear the rudder. After that I put the screws to it and the prop broke free with a big bang after about 2 minutes and and 3 turns of the screw.

I was left with three pieces: the prop itself, the "key" and a little wedge. Where does the little wedge go, and what is it's purpose?

Thanks,

Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdvalant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2011 at 11:12am
Interesting Ed I have no idea what this little wedge you speak of could be...maybe others will know.
'90 Ski (sold)
'00 Sport
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2011 at 11:41am
Ed,
Post a picture of this "wedge". I don't know what it is ether. Is it a brocken piece of the key? Some were tapered on the front ends.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seacamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2011 at 3:36pm
Thanks for the topic guys, it was timely. I bought this as a backup prop:

Prop

And then promptly needed it. I squirted the old prop down with pb blaster, and I mixed a little Hollywood advice and put the pressure on and left it over night. The next morning I just touched it with a torch and it popped right off. So now do I send the old stock prop off to get re manufactured? Is it worth it?
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote echobravoecho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2011 at 3:54pm
A new Acme 422 was delivered from Delta this morning. I'm still at work, but look forward to installing and testing it this week. I'll get a photo of the "wedge" and post. (it's the size of a fingernail)

This will replace the stock prop, which I drove onto the mud flats while seeking "smooth water" for my 9 yr. old. She was on the boom, and just got up on the trainer skis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2011 at 5:15pm
Ed,
Don't forget proper prop installation I'd hate to see you loose that new 422!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote echobravoecho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2011 at 10:10pm
Thanks for the link to the lapping Procedure. Took about 5 minutes. Take a look at the results:


While we are at it, here's a look at the 422. Notice the machine work on the back? Is this typical of a new prop?


And finally, the mysterious "wedge". I hope this fell from the sky when I was pulling the prop and landed right next to the key, cause it's not going back on. When there are more parts left over than what came off, that's known among engineers as "adding lightness".


PS: Those aren't my toes!
The nine yr. old is so excited to get back on the water she came out to help and couldn't keep her toes out of the photo.

Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2011 at 11:22pm
I'm not sure if it's the angle of the first photo, but it looks like your due for a new cut-less bushing.
And it looks like the shaft isn't aligned to well, it looks like its riding against the 7-8 o’clock part of the bushing.

What do ya think Pete??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 1:09am
Originally posted by echobravoecho echobravoecho wrote:

While we are at it, here's a look at the 422. Notice the machine work on the back? Is this typical of a new prop?


The back of my 470 looked just like that.

I assumed that they were "balancing" adjustments rather that rough cast related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 6:42am
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

I'm not sure if it's the angle of the first photo, but it looks like your due for a new cut-less bushing.
And it looks like the shaft isn't aligned to well, it looks like its riding against the 7-8 o’clock part of the bushing.

What do ya think Pete??

Paul,
I agree.

Ed,
You had better check it. Also, the shot of the "wedge" isn't the greatest. How about another picture? You've got me real curious!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 7:10am
DId you happen to use a wood handled hammer while removing the prop because that looks like a handle wedge. Check your hammer maybe it fell out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 7:31am
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

DId you happen to use a wood handled hammer while removing the prop because that looks like a handle wedge. Check your hammer maybe it fell out.


Alan,
Thanks - now I see it!! I think you're correct.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 7:36am
Looking at the two flat spots on the hub in the same picture, I think Alan guessed it right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 8:24am
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Looking at the two flat spots on the hub in the same picture, I think Alan guessed it right.


Ha I missed that but by the size of that wedge I think it was a universal prop removal tool AKA a BFH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 8:35am
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Looking at the two flat spots on the hub in the same picture, I think Alan guessed it right.


Ha I missed that but by the size of that wedge I think it was a universal prop removal tool AKA a BFH.

I guess that puller didn't work the greatest!! But, it was an Autozone loaner!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 9:58am
Hey now Pete, how do you know those flats weren't already there from a previous removal? Give the guy a break.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote echobravoecho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2011 at 11:03am
The auto zone puller worked great, plus it fit my budget. The prop damage was from a PO hack job.

I bent the prop on what basically was the shakedown cruise, and the drivetrain was vibrating enough already that I thought the prop needed some work even before I hit the mud. In fact if I didn't have the girls in the boat I'd a pulled it out of the water and gone thru the drive train. It vibrated enough that I didn't open it up to check top speed.


Being mechnical but not nautical, when I found the shim I wondered if that was the cause of the vibration, installed at some point in the past to patch a massive defect. After working with the new prop and the lapping process, it's obvious that no such hack job could be perpetrated on the drive train and it still rotate. But the dents on the prop did explain some of the vibration, and now knowing that the cutlass bearing needs to be replaced explains the rest of the vibration. The prop shaft itself might also be bent.

Is there a link to bearing replacement?

I'll also need some intell on how the prop shaft transits the hull, and what parts are needed to refurb it.

Thanks in advance and I'm already looking forward to a smooth running boat.


Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2011 at 11:08am
Originally posted by mdvalant mdvalant wrote:

Feels great! I want to test out our 654 but will be reluctant to take this one off...


Mike,

Did you ever test the 654? We ended up getting the 99 Sport and it has the stock OJ on it, but also came with an Acme weekend saver kit with a 654 in the bag .

From our test ride I felt like the stock OJ was slipping a lot out of the hole, I'm thinking the Acme would be better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdvalant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2011 at 11:10am
Hey Craig! Glad you got that boat, hope it works out well for you!

We have yet to try out the 654...We also have our hands on a 422 now. Not sure which would be the better ride on the sport, might try both before the summer's end.

I really didn't like that stock OJ that came with it. Did not do it's job IMO!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2011 at 11:22am
Well I think I'm going to try the 654. I'll let you know how it goes.

I think the new boat will suit our needs great. The Sport w/ the PCM transmission sounds like crap compared the BBC with the velvet, so the 85' is definitely more fun to cruise around in.... We may keep both, I like the looking out at the detached and seeing this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdvalant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2011 at 11:24am
That looks beautiful :) We had that going on till about the end of June.

Dad was thinking about keeping the '90 but for what we do...we'd just never use it. They wanted to pay some more down on the new boat. haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2012 at 3:55am
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

Posted: 23-May-2011 One of my winter projects is to back to back both props with full data.


Better late than never that was almost 12 months ago. Yesterday was such a pleasant late Autumn day. Far to good to be in the office doing paperwork for the Tax department.



Conditions 26C(79F) No wind.
98 Sport GT40 full tank of fuel driver 88kg(195lbs) and 30kg(66lbs)dog in bow walk through.

GPS PP Stargazer readings.

ACME 422 12.5 X 15.5                  OJ 13 X 16 Legend (Original)

2000rpm    14.5 mph                    2000rpm    14.1 mph
3000rpm    29.1 mph                    3000rpm    28.0 mph
4000rpm    37.5 mph                    4000rpm    36.5 mph
4500rpm    40.3 mph                    4500rpm    39.8 mph
4940rpm    42.0 mph                    4970rpm    42.7 mph

Added 400lb Fatsac in rear locker and rerun WOT tests

4960rpm    42.3 mph                    4990rpm    43.1 mph

The top speed is disappointing especially when others have top speeds over 45mph with less rpms on same hull. The engine feels strong but does have a few hours on it. The rpms achieved indicate that it is pulling well just not getting good speed numbers. I have seen 5200rpm on this engine previously but that was with a Acme 470 which only lasted one day on the boat as the rpms were 200-300 higher right through the range.

The original tach in boat is quite accurate but the Stargazer one gives you 10rpm increments hard to read the analog that fine. The water was glass and this may have slowed boat. No chop or ripple to get some air under the hull.

The reference section had some numbers for the Sport and SN for 95 and 96. Not sure if these numbers would have been GPS certified but 46.6mph for the Ski and 47.5mph for the Sport. I remember the first time I found those number I was surprised that the larger Sport hull was faster.

In 98 the factory did some small changes to rear chine cutout plus reduced the shaft angle. I wonder if that slowed the boat down over the previous Sport 93-97?

Mike or Steve did you ever get full GPS readings on your hull with either the Acme 1442 or 422.

Especially interested in the numbers for the 1442 Mike.

Pete or Tim do you think I would have enough hull clearance with the 1442 prop. The 12.5" 422 has 1.375". The 13.25" 1442 would have only 1" by my calcs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2012 at 6:23am
on the big stuff and i dont know if its needed on the smaller props, but we sweated one on yesterday and i finally discovered what the meaning was to "sweat" a prop on. we got the prop as tight as it could go, and i mean tight, then we flash heated the prop for about 10 minutes, and got about another 3/4' turn on the nut. but as we flash heated the prop, you could see it actually sweat on the blades.
I dont suggest heating your prop and i will do some looking on seating smaller props.
I have noticed in the past though when taking props off that the nut at times is loose and thats because over time it advances more onto the shaft from the thrust of the boat and the nut loosens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 9:40am
Yes, you'd have room to run that 1442 (I believe Mike has tried it on his Sport as well). I probably wouldnt though, as it will turn ~200 more RPM than the 422, so very similar to the 470. Youre propped just right if your turning just under 5k.

The big discrepancy between the speed and RPM would suggest that you have a slow hull. Where does the spray break when youre at skiing speeds (30+)? My '90 also has a slow hull... runs very nose planted:



Short of taking a grinder to the hull and removing some hook, theres not a lot you can do about that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdvalant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 4:17pm
Hey sorry I must have UN-subscribed from this thread for some reason...

I'll work on getting some numbers. I never have time for fiddle faddle I just kinda wing it and go by what feels good to me. Had the 422 on the sport yesterday after a full recondition from ACME and I didn't really like it all that much........

654 still my favorite though by far.

If my memory serves well none of our props were under the 44mph mark on GPS. They were all 44-45 with one driver and rider full tank of fuel.

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'00 Sport
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 5:21pm
the grinding on the new acme is normal---balancing the prop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 5:41pm
Andy,
I must have lost your idea here?
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

the grinding on the new acme is normal---balancing the prop

Are you talking about Tim's comment?
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Short of taking a grinder to the hull and removing some hook, theres not a lot you can do about that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 5:46pm
No no , sorry Pete I shoulda used the quote feature

Ed had asked way back up the thread about his new acme having machining marks(grinding)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

No no , sorry Pete I shoulda used the quote feature

Ed had asked way back up the thread about his new acme having machining marks(grinding)

Andy,
Got it! I even went back in the thread briefly looking to see if I could figure out your comment! Thank's for clearing up my confusion.


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