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Property Lines/Neighbors

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dochockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Property Lines/Neighbors
    Posted: May-17-2011 at 7:43am
Well where do I start? I don't know how many of you out there have had problems with the neighbors and property lines but mine every year thinks their property line moves each year
The original stakes are long gone so I called some surveyors and they want up around a $1000 to mark the four corners
Does any one know any short cuts to find property lines?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 8:00am
you should be able to get a map yourself from city hall on your property lines, they always start with a known point and measure yourself
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levinmark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 8:10am
I agree with Eric, check with city hall and get a plot map. Even though your stakes are gone, look at your map and roughly locate the boundries, there should be a metal stake or two buried at one of the corners and measure from there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 8:10am
Kirk,
Getting a surveyor in is your only choice. It sounds like one hasn't been done in quite some time so it's not a bad idea. Besides convincing your neighbor, you should have a current one just incase of a sale or sometimes banks like to see them.The $1000 doesn't sound out of line. Costs depend on how far back/over they need to go to pick up a decent benchmark. This is especially true for land that's never been subdivided. Ask them to put some steel stakes in besides the yellow plastic things they use now.

So, how much of your land does your neighbor think he owns??


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 8:14am
Originally posted by levinmark levinmark wrote:

I agree with Eric, check with city hall and get a plot map. Even though your stakes are gone, look at your map and roughly locate the boundries, there should be a metal stake or two buried at one of the corners and measure from there

From the sound of things, I do not feel Kirk's neighbor is going to believe him if he marks it off himself! What if the next benchmark is 10 propeties or more over?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 8:32am
See what's on file at the registry of deeds. If it's been surveyed in the past, the survey was likely recorded. If there is one stake nearby and the lots are relatively small and simple in shape, you may be able to do some measuring and get yourself in the ballpark. If the neighbor is disputing the line, a survey is the only choice. Problem is, the new markers in the ground are apt to disappear. When looking for a surveyor, the guy who's done work in that area is apt to give you the best price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

   When looking for a surveyor, the guy who's done work in that area is apt to give you the best price.

I agree. When I built my shop last summer, I called the same surveyor who my neighbor used a couple years before. The lot corners were marked well but where the shop was on top of the hill there really wasn't a line of site to the corner stakes. Needing to get the shop as close as the zoning would permit to the line, the surveyor came in for $250 and added 3 stakes next to the shop excavation. The plus to this is if a dispute did come up, I used my neighbors surveyor!!   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 9:19am
the easiest solution to abutter problems i have found is go as close to the line boundry and on one side put in bee hives, on the other side put a car trailer with the ugliest piece of junk car you can find on it break out the glass paint it with graffiti and the problem seem to resolve themselves. works even better when they are trying to sell the property , they will agree to anything to make those things go away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tullfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 9:31am
A professional survey is the only way to go. Line of site means nothing today with GPS surveying equipment. I agree that if you can find a surveyor who has recently worked in the area, his price will reflect his familiarity with the benchmarks. My neighbor (who is the best neighbor a person could have) had is lot done for $600, which, on paper, took away 12' of my shoreline, which he did not try to reclaim. So I had them do mine for $125 which allowed my to pick up 10' from my peckerhead neighbor on the other side (that house as since burned down, now a vacant lot).
My cottage on the other hand was platted in 1924. The benchmark, some of which are now under water, have all but disappeared. We've been told by a surveyor who worked a lawsuit in the area that the whole subdivision would have to be done and all property owners would have to basically barter for property lines, agree to property lines, and sign quick claim deeds to re-establish new property lines.
Have you tried to find the original pins? It's illegal to move a professional surveyors pins and monuments. You'd be surprised what you can find with an old survey and a metal detector. I have found most of the pins I have looked for when trying to find property lines. I just bought a barn and will be searching for those pins soon.
BTW, where in Michigan are you located.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 10:20am
If you do decide to have the property surveyed try to find a previously done survey and call that company for an update, will make it cheaper.
Typically a sale would require a survey or if unsure the County, City or Village should have one on file from any building permits taken which you should be able to get copies of.

Also have you checked the County web site, may be information available there, the county I reside in has aerial maps with images that date back to the 20's. Check the Zoning section if one exists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67425ks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 11:04am
spend the bucks and get a survey, then get an underground fence and an angry dog. good fences make good neighbors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 1:11pm
I had that issue, the neighbor was cutting my trees. Told her to stop, wait until I get a survey. She didn't. I had to call the tree company to get them to stop. She cleared 20' into my property at some spots. She also pulled the metal pins. Local cop said I could have her arrested for that, not for the trees, that's a civil matter.

Called in a surveyor, he surveyed my land. $1,000. When he ran the stake line up the side she cut down, I went out there and took pictures to show how many trees she cut. Her husband came out, asked what I was thinking. I said, I think I'm not happy, you can clearly see what she did here. I said, I'd like to talk to my lawyer but I'm not going to at this point. I said see those stakes the surveyor put up? They were the wooden stakes with the pink ribbon. I said don't touch them, touch them and I'm calling the lawyer. I said if I hear a chainsaw over hear by this stake line without you asking me, I'm calling the lawyer. I also said I had to pay $1,000 over this BS. He offered to pay for half. I think he got off easy.

Ultimately I have to live next door to these people for who knows how long. So I didn't take it further. But I did keep stressing, I bought these six acres so I wouldn't have to see my neighbors, and now I can sort of see them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Mark Mel Mark Mel wrote:

She cleared 20' into my property at some spots.

Mark,
I feel Peter's solution with the bees and old junk cars would fit real nice in that 20'.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 2:13pm
I thought of all kinds of things like that. Still mad about it and it happened 2 years ago.

When I'm mowing the lawn I think of things like chucking round-up ice cubes into their lawn, ordering some bags of dandelion seeds and blowing them over there etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 2:33pm
Dang Mark, here in my state, tresspassing can put you six feet under. Only a fool would mess with another man's property line, much less cut their trees. As much as I hate fences, there would be a 7.5 foot high deer fence around my whole property if I had neighbors that bold. Sounds like it's time to put up some posted/no tresspasing signs. "Property protected by Smith & Wesson," lol!! That should do the trick. As mentioned earlier, good fences make for good neighbors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 2:42pm
Oh I have a fence. 8' high along the front third of the prop, problem was I didn't run it right on the prop line. I had a nice straight row of big pines that were back a bit from the line I attached the fence to. She was cutting to that in the front. Much farther in toward the back where there wasn't a fence.

The woman's a nut, we live on a shared drive as much as I wanted to escalate the situation, my wife convinced me otherwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 3:07pm
Sounds like it may be time to "out crazy" the crazy neighbor.
I understand wanting to keep the peace though. About 10 years ago I was having trouble with a neighbor who was feeding about 20 feral cats. Her cats started spraying my vehicles and completely ruined one of my vintage convertibles by spraying down the cowl into the vent system. I mentioned it to a crazy friend of mine and told him I could handle the problem, diplomatically, of course. The following Friday afternoon, I was confronting the neighbor about the cat problem when my knucklehead friend drives up and hollers over to us "hey Dave, kill those cats yet?" She nearly fainted. I told her he was only joking. She promised that the cats would not be a problem in the future. She rounded them up, kept them inside, and I never saw them again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 3:28pm
I have 8 acres and a neighbor that likes to feed feral cats. They like to come on my property to hunt the squirrels and chipmunks and do the happy thing under my shed in the middle of the night.
Took care of the cat’s one at a time with the .22.
Neighbor asked me if I had seen any of the cats they were disappearing I said "Must be the coyotes"
No more cat problem!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Dave D. Dave D. wrote:

Sounds like it may be time to "out crazy" the crazy neighbor.
I understand wanting to keep the peace though. About 10 years ago I was having trouble with a neighbor who was feeding about 20 feral cats. Her cats started spraying my vehicles and completely ruined one of my vintage convertibles by spraying down the cowl into the vent system. I mentioned it to a crazy friend of mine and told him I could handle the problem, diplomatically, of course. The following Friday afternoon, I was confronting the neighbor about the cat problem when my knucklehead friend drives up and hollers over to us "hey Dave, kill those cats yet?" She nearly fainted. I told her he was only joking. She promised that the cats would not be a problem in the future. She rounded them up, kept them inside, and I never saw them again.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dochockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 3:51pm
LMBFAO

Yeah its too bad, He is one of those neighbors that never has any tools, wants to barrow yours and then never return them afterwords. It's sad.

Thanks for all your comments I'm down to $650 now.

I'm in Kalamazoo county, MI.

I will look for the in ground stakes.

I definitely need legal property markings for this neighbor.

My dad is a master bee keeper

As soon as the lines are marked some sort of fence or pricker hedge is going up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Took care of the cat’s one at a time with the .22.
Neighbor asked me if I had seen any of the cats they were disappearing


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 4:34pm
Funny that this topic pops up right as I am having similar issues. Investor bought the two houses to the left of mine and is trying to either flip or rent them. She had a survey done and was b*tc#en to the guy behind her, who happens to be a friend of mine, that my driveway is partially on her land. My house and the house next door were built in the 40's and have shared a driveway ever since. Now she wants to come in and stir ish up because the property line does not quite run down the middle of the driveways. The surveyor dug up the iron property marker at the bottom of the driveway and left a 1 foot round hole there were he found it. After a week of tripping around it I just filled it back in for her. I am just waiting to see how it pans out. Mrs Cummings would roll over on her grave if she knew that her kids sold the house her husband built to an investor to rent out. Nothing I can really do about it but try to get some people I know to move in. At least my 80lb lab tries to attack her through the fence and barks his head off every time she comes over.

I like the expression that has been quoted here about good fences. Very true!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 4:48pm
My good friend in North Idaho has a saying. "Know your neighbor's name"

Out there people joke about just moving the stakes a few feet a year til you get what you want. I have 25 acres in the mountains and a neighbor on each side that wants to squeeze me a little more in on each side. Not maliciously really, but there has not been a legit survey done in the area in 50+ years. I do not really bitch cause I am not there often and we all agree in general where the lines are.
FWIW, it would cost me about $15k to do a survey on my lot, and several would get markers in the process. Just not worth it in that particular situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 5:19pm
A wise man would do the city hall gig, mark it and let the a-hole neighbor dispute and hire the surveyor, there should be steel pins there as suggested...what do you have to lose? he may agree right off the get go when he sees you marking and measuring...if not you tell him to get his land surveyed....rent or borrow a metal detector to find the pins????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 8:22pm
I like marks idea the roundup .... a good way to be rid of waste oil too..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2011 at 9:56pm
It alway seems like the ones who cant even take care of what they have are always crowding over. We live on 12 acres and some neighbors seem to think it's theirs.Every time someone else moves in you have to educate them.My grandparents bought it in the 40's and we had it resurveyed 20 yrs ago. A few years ago the 2 acres next to us were split and sold.Naturally it was surveyed and the lines are in their favor,wonder how that works? We get along fine with our neighbors so it's no problem for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dochockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2011 at 2:06am
I was going to pull the trigger on a surveyor? but the wife said to spend the money elsewhere so I'm going to put the money into my boat instead
I'm going to get more creative and put it on their shoulders to pay for a survey   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2011 at 8:42pm
I don't know how much different Michigan would be from NY. Here any survey map should be filed with the real property office at the county office and they are public record. Your deed should have written description of property and would also reference any surveys. If the corner stakes on the other side are still there, you could pull a chain to the side in question. That should get you pretty close. Keep in mind that survey measurements are on a horizontal plane. If you have a big elevation change from side to side, you need to take that into consideration. The plastic caps used now to mark corners are usually capping a metal pin of some sort. I used 2-3 foot length of rebar when I surveyed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dochockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2012 at 1:07am
well just when I thought things were going good my neighbor on the other side decided to put in some retaining walls, they went on vacation. Their contractor has been driving his bobcat and dumping his piles of sand on our property ! I'm lost for words. Where did respect go? its seems nobody cares any more?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2012 at 6:28pm
You'd better re-think that survey now....   In realestate law, there is such a thing as a hostile take over... if your neighbor improves on your land and you don't do anything about it, he will own it after a certain period of time.    It's called "Adverse Posession". also, if the contractor uses your property as an easment, if you don't request that the easment be on your neighbor's property, the easment can become permanent also.     Yikes... I guess the saying stands that good fences make good neighbors.
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