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Barefoot Nautique decals for sale

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    Posted: May-25-2008 at 4:01pm
I have complete sets avilable for Barefoot Nautiques boats. These decals are digitally printed on 3M vinyl and topped with UV protected laminate.

Complete sets are $550.00. Call 678-714-1965 or email a2zsignsbuford@gmail.com. We are located at Lake Lanier, GA and are N. Georgia's largest boat graphics dealer. We will email pics of the decals on request. References available.

Note: Hull colors can impact the final outcome. Please be prepared to email a digital photo so we can discuss how well the final product will meet your color.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2008 at 7:21pm
Gregs, Do ether of you know the above? Looks like he's in your area. You should go over there with a printed copy of this: selling parts
I think he missed out reading it!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2008 at 7:58pm
Pete, you're so bad?!!?    LMAO!!!

No, I don't know him and it will be next winter of later before I have to cross that bridge.

I will say that if it is a complete set(small pieces and all), it would be nice to have them all match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2008 at 8:03pm
Buddy, what Pete means is that you should go through the site administrator if you are commercial. His name is keith...look for keith@ccfan.

There have been several here restoring their boats, so if you'd like to offer a 'CCFan' price to the members here...   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2008 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by BuffaloBFN BuffaloBFN wrote:

Buddy, what Pete means is that you should go through the site administrator if you are commercial.


What I really mean is that Buddy may have read the statement and he is simply trying to do a cheap A** shot at a no cost advertisement. He may not give a damn!! There are plenty of them out there and the reason I asked if you knew him.

Has anyone ever used the "report post" feature? I just might have to click on it and see what happens!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2008 at 10:56pm
I do know where it is. It is right next to West Marine where I get most of my parts. I went in one day to check on some numbers I needed for my American Skier kind of in a hurry. They stuck it to me on price to get them done. Only once!
Greg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2008 at 11:16pm
I'll be glad to post where it is acceptable. Where would that be?

BTW - we charge $25 for a set of reg #'s and on occasion do them while the customer waits with no upcharge. As I said, we can provide several hundred references for our work.

No more posts from me here, but would someone tell me where I can post. It seems that these decals are not easy to find and while I am definitely trying to sell them, there is a demand for them.

Thx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2008 at 6:24am
This, Selling Parts-Please Read, is right above your post 1 page back.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2008 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by buddym buddym wrote:


BTW - we charge $25 for a set of reg #'s and on occasion do them while the customer waits with no upcharge. As I said, we can provide several hundred references for our work.

Thx


How about $50 if you want them in the next 1/2 half hour or so. I had no problems with the quality at all. They looked great. Just didn't appreciate the upcharge. I guess it was my fault for putting off getting them done.
Greg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 1:20pm
Pete- the report post will send Keith an email.

Buddy, we certainly appreciate information about where to locate parts, decals, etc. But in all fairness, you really should contact the site administrator and work out an advertising agreement like all other site sponsors.
You can email them directly at this link:Site adminstrator
Thank you
-Brad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 1:21pm
Hey Guys,
Buddy has reached out to me and we're working things out. Should see something up shortly.

Thanks,
Keith
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Former:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 1:38pm
And we still don't know what years he's even talking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 3:17pm
Joe:

I just sent an email to Keith to explain, but will here also. These graphics are made to order. We start with an etching of the original and turn it into a decal. So - on that basis, the year does not matter.

H O W E V E R - some years of BFN graphics can be recreated without additional charges, some cannot. The set that we have recreated are 1990 BFN graphics that were put on a 1989 BFN. In order to do the 1989 on a 1989, there would have been an additional $1200 one time set up for screen printing (vs. the digital printing that we actually used). The owner chose the lesser route.

In each case, we have to work with the owner to get the pattern and color correct. It is a tedious process to get it correct, but well worth it according to the owner that bought the first set.

Also keep in mind that we only offer graphics that Nautique no longer supports.

I'm working with Keith on becoming a sponsor. Let me know if you have more questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by buddym buddym wrote:

The set that we have recreated are 1990 BFN graphics that were put on a 1989 BFN. In order to do the 1989 on a 1989, there would have been an additional $1200 one time set up for screen printing (vs. the digital printing that we actually used). The owner chose the lesser route.

I thought the 89-90 graphics were the same. I think you may have created the 91+ graphics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 3:41pm
The two boats were side by side and I asked the restorer what the years were. Could be they were 91's. We can verify that.

The difference is that one set has a white outline and one set has a gray outline. Without getting too technical here, the gray outline requires a different process and a pretty significant upcharge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 5:51pm
So the first owner who steps up with a year you don't have gets stuck with the $1200 setup charge and the next guy only pays $550?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 6:09pm
In theory yes - and that is exactly what happened to the first owner. He wanted custom graphics which took my team 10 hours of design and testing plus 20 color samples. Actually, in his case, he only paid an additional $750.00 because he opted for the easiest version. There are 3 versions. 1. straight digital print. 2. digital print from a printer that can print white ink. 3. screen printed (which is an exact replica of the original design). Only screen printing would incur an additional $1200.

But if I get enough interest from the group for a particular set, then maybe the cost can be spread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

So the first owner who steps up with a year you don't have gets stuck with the $1200 setup charge and the next guy only pays $550?


I have a question regarding the charges as well. I have worked with my local sign/vinyl shop on many projects. Costs have always been the art work, printing set up and the actual printing charge. The biggest cost has always been the art work because of the man hours it takes. When the job is complete, I have always owned the artwork because I paid for it. He even presents me with a electronic file and signed documentation that I own the art work and he can't use it again without my permission. So, why doesn't the customer who paid the first $1200 (or even $550) get what he paid for? There is no way a "set up" for printing cost this much.

BTW, this shop is second generation so they are well known and have been around for quite awhile. My first job I took to him was hand painting the name on the transom of my 54. He still gets his brushes out about once a year! True craftsmanship!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2008 at 9:22pm
A very fair question. I hope that you will pardon the long answer, but it is necessary. I hope you will read the answer thoroughly because it will takes a few turns to get to the conclusion.

I also give the artwork to my customers when I create CUSTOM artwork for them. The actual copyright law says that unless I surrender my ownership of CUSTOM art (this will be important in a sec), then I own it. When someone orders artwork for business cards, legally they are restricted to using it only for business cards – not postcards – not letterhead – nothing else but business cards. Copyright infringement cases are easily won in small claims courts by sign shops where the customer abuses usage rights. Now, my personal belief is that this is a bunch of horse hockey and I don’t charge my customers an additional fee for ownership where CUSTOM art in involved.

NOW – in this case, I REcreated a logo once supported by Nautique. In actuality, they still own the copyright. Before I decided to try selling these, I called them twice. Once, I spoke with the marketing assistant and once I left a voice mail for the VP of Marketing explaining what I was going to do. For whatever reason, they chose not to call me back. If they ask me to cease and desist – I will cease and desist.

A direct answer to your question goes like this. If a guy asks me to REcreate a Chevy logo, I can not sell him ownership or usage rights to the logo because I don’t own it. I also can’t call General Motors and say “well some guy paid me to REcreate your logo, so I own it now and you’ll have to pay me royalties.” Only when CUSTOM artwork is created specifically for a company or individual can the rights of ownership or usage be assigned.

Now as to “Set Up” fees. I used that term loosely and would not have done so with another sign person. These are not truly set up fees. The extra charge for my first set was for 10 hours of design, 20 or more color tests, 4 trips to the restoration shop for a sanity check, etc. Look closely at the BFN logo. This is not your average vinyl cut logo. Note the spaces in the letters – note the different colors and how they are assembled. Note that the original decals were screen printed on clear vinyl (we’ll talk more about that in a few). In order to recreate this and be true to the original design, the logo was painstakingly etched to tracing paper and then a few letters at a time were scanned, then vectorized. Then the scans were reassembled and a pattern was cut for testing. All of this occurred before final color tests were done. After the 20 or so color tests were run (part of the logo for a red hulled boat includes red – so they need to match), we printed the decals.

The $550 for the decals is because of the material used as well as the printer. The $25,000 printer holds inks that cost $1,000. These are not typical inks. They are pigmented UV inks rated with an indoor life of 75 years. These are the same inks used to recreate art masterpieces that are shown in the Metropolitan Museum of Art (we also recreate art for artists). The decals are printed on 3M vinyl and protected by 3m laminate – currently the best printable vinyl on the market. Using this combination, the decals are guaranteed for 7 years outdoors, currently the longest available using this technique.

Now – the original decals were screen printed. For those that don’t know, a screen has to be built to size for each color. Then NAZDAR UV inks are spread across clear decals to make the final product. The screens can not be used for anything else and are typically stored for one year or so in case there is a reorder. Our screen printer has several thousand masters stored in a separate warehouse In this case, the price for the screens alone is north of $1,000.

Please show this to you sign guy. He sounds like someone that I would like to know. Ask him to check with his screen printer and see what he would charge, including markup, as a screen fee. Also show him a detailed pic of a BFN logo (not the Correct Craft) and ask him what he would charge to hand paint it. Hopefully, you will post the answers here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 9:26am
Buddy, Thanks for your explanation. My file on the graphics I've had made is at home. I'll pull it and see what's in it for details. It will be next wwek since I'm heading out for a long weekend.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 10:34am
I'll look forward to your info.

One key point to this discussion. The original set that we recreated was for a red hulled boat. The boat had been restored and repainted, so the hull color was a few shades off from the original. The logo for that boat also contains red (seems that's not true on all BFNs), so the reds had to match.

The logo that I recreated has 3 colors, red, white, and gray.

Once last note. If your sign shop sold you usage rights for a CC or any other copyrighted logo, he did not sell you the rights to use them or own them. Those rights are owned by the original company. What he sold you was that he would not reproduce them for anyone else without your permission.

Had my owner wanted the same, we could have negotiated that point into the deal.

Have a good trip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 11:07am
I don't know jack about this industry, but I'd like to know how all this is done. Don't worry, I'm not going to steal your ideas and go buy my own printer! Is each letter a separate screen? I would assume all the work can go into getting that one right, then the style/color/shade copied through all the traced letters. You could also copy the SKI graphics as well or anything else you can trace regardless of size (2001 & transom graphics).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 11:28am
Joe:

I'm not worried about you stealing the process. It is tedious to get right.

There are 3 ways that this can be done. The manner is dictated by the hull color and the BFN decals. Can you tell me what color your hull is? It would also help if you email a pic showing the logo in detail.

btw - solid logos are pretty easy to reproduce. I'm only talking about the BFN logo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 12:27pm
The BFN would be the same thing as the Ski, just spelled different.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 12:33pm
Joe:

Does the red hull boat decal have a white outline or a gray outline?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 1:05pm
The red one would be white. When I find my camera I can post much better close ups of a red stripe 88 Ski and a burgandy stripe 88 Barefoot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 3:16pm
Buddy

Hollywoods name is Kevin not Joe. You must be looking at his signiture line. That is a quote from someone else. Just click on their profile to find thier name.

Hollywood, I believe Mid-West still has a set of 88 BFN original decals.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 3:30pm
ooops - what is he the Grand Poobah of?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 3:51pm
Kevin,
I was in screen printing for 20 years, so let me help, and Alan can break in as well to add his 2cents.

First, the screens do not have to sit anywhere for a year. The screen image can be reclained and recoated. The image is stored electronically and imaged on film. Old. loosened screens actually can produce distorted, unregisted prints. So the film is all you really need to store. If they are doing this in one screen per color on a long piece of vinyl, and needed to buy a frame specially for this job, then there is that added expense.

Second, on a white background color, I'm not sure why "white" vinyl isn't being used. Not sure why the extra color, white, is being used, but not knowing the graphic, I'm not sure what can be reverse printed and trapped.

Third, This is usually printed on one long piece of vinyl where all the letters are printed at once, for each color. Then the graphic is laminated to a release liner (the backing of the decal). Then kiss cut so each letter is all that remains for you to apply to the boat.

Buddy is correct that there are set up fees, but in my opinion they should pertain to only the original artwork. If these are going to be produced with any consistancy (as the original design, no custom work), there is a certain investment that he should bear for the intial set up costs. His retail price should be the same for everyone interested which should have a certain cost amortized in the price to pay for his costs over the long run. Called breakeven...

Pete's original statement I believe is right. Unless custom, the first guy buying any graphic should not get stuck with the burden of his business plan.

He should get a "Group Buy" thing going, diversify the cost of the set up and make it fair, yet profitable for him..

Hell, I can make any one of our die cast parts, cast iron parts, logos, steering wheels, replacement Airguide parts, and the like through my China connections, but the tooling costs versus the group buy numbers would never come out profitable. There just isn't enough volume....

I'm sure Buddy does excellent work and do not get disscouraged in doing business with him. These are my opinions and FYI info to help you understand how the decals are made. Now Digital is a whole nother story.. Expensive ink, but no set up whatsoever...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2008 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by Mojo Mojo wrote:

Second, on a white background color, I'm not sure why "white" vinyl isn't being used. Not sure why the extra color, white, is being used, but not knowing the graphic, I'm not sure what can be reverse printed and trapped.

Moj, the graphics above are very similar to mine (89-90 decals). The majority of the decal is clear, and the gel underneath shows through- which is how it seems to fade from top to bottom. I know they made 2 different types of Ski Nautique decals- a white and a black fade. The white version that I have is white, gray and clear. I assume the black is similar. I doubt the BFN's had any other special gel-matching colors added to theirs- so thats confusing why the above mentioned decals had red in them.

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