Dilemma.
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4653
Printed Date: June-13-2024 at 7:39pm
Topic: Dilemma.
Posted By: Tate
Subject: Dilemma.
Date Posted: August-28-2006 at 11:22pm
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Y'all help me out. I think I want a tower on my 80 Martinique. I'm trying to progress on my wakeboard. I've been riding for a few years behind an extesion pole but I hear the quality of the ride is a lot better behind a tower. (Boat doesn't lyst on hard cuts) Is that going to ruin the vintage feel and look of the boat? I know it's a moving anachronism on an '80 but I really think I want one. Anybody have any feedback on this? ------------- Tate |
Replies:
Posted By: 2_Nautiques
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 8:11am
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Tate, I don't see how a tower will prevent you from listing during a side cut. The rope will still be pulled from approx. the same location attached to the same base platform (the boat). We try to not pull out so far and increase our cut just before the wake, helps reduce the list. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1160" rel="nofollow - 1988 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 9:21am
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I would second that a tower isn't going to change the load on the hull and will still list to the side in either case. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Tate
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 2:34pm
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I thought that too, and you guys are probobly right. I heard a guy on the Pull TV show say that and since I've never ridden behind a tower I really had no basis for comparison. Maybe the ext. pole is sufficient. ------------- Tate |
Posted By: Dank
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 2:42pm
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I board with a skylon and I'd like a tower, but like the others I don't think it would make much difference in the boat listing and I don't think it would improve my boarding (essentially the same pull point as the skylon). I would want a tower for:
1) looks 2) currently rope gets caught on my boards in the board rack on the skylon 3) can mount speakers and lights on a tower 4) could fashion cover around a tower...right now I remove the skylon when putting the boat up 5) tower mounted anchor light would be cool However...if I was going to drop a grand on my boat, I'd probably put perfect pa$$ on it before a tower :) ------------- "I don't know what the world may need, but a http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=886&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - V8 engine's a good start for me" |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 3:37pm
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I've had this debate before as to weather a tower lists less than a pole. At it's simplest level, I agree that if the attach point is at the same, the forces should be the same. Still, in the back of my mind, I can't help but believe when you move from a single point of attachment at the floor, to a 4 or six point contact at the gunnel, and distribute the loads over a wider area, there must be some difference. However, it's been 25 years since I studied physics, and I'm not smart enough to figure it out any more.
Antidotally, I've driven and ridden the same model boats with tower and pole. It sure seems to me like the the pole rocks the boat more. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: Poster112
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 4:00pm
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Pivot point with an extended pylon is lower (below the floor), therefore you get more leverage when pulling on the lever, which is the pylon. The tower's pivot point is at the level of the gunnel, so not as much leverage, which equals less rock. How much less is still a question, because an arguement can be made that the sides of the hull act as an extension of the tower, leading down to the same pivot point as the pylon (the keel). I still think that the shorter lever provides less leverage. Anyway, I would never put a tower on my 78 nautique, so I just do not pull out so far when using my skylon.
Just my 2 cents.  ------------- I'd rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal-lobotomy. http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3182&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1925&yrend=2009" rel="nofollow - 1985 Ski 1984 SW |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 4:06pm
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I agree with the Perfect Pa$$ before a tower option especially if you already have an extended pylon. Towers are nice for the extra storage room and provide a bit more solid pull helping load the rope betterbut its not going to get you closer to landing your inverts. Couldn't live without my perfect pa$$ though, once you have perfect you can't go back...
Dank, The previous owner had the cover on my 2001 modified to fit around the extended pylon, and it works out really well. I could take a picture of it if your interested. -Joe. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: skicat
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 4:12pm
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I will have to disagree with that poster. There is no pivot point. If the pylon & the tower are both attached to the boat in a rigid manner & both have the same height to the pulling point, the roll of the boat should be the same. There will be an increased stress on the attachment point of the pylon compared to the tower because of the single attachment point compared to the 4 points of the tower. ------------- Greg http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2427&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985" rel="nofollow - 86 BFN |
Posted By: dchris17
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 4:33pm
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From a mechanical engineering perspective, I have to agree with the sentiment that the listing SHOULD be the same regardless of whether you use a tower or a pole. That's the way the physics work, at least at the level of understanding you get from college level static/dynamic force cla$$es. There is a difference in the amount of torque exerted at the attachement points, but I don't know why that would affect the tendency of the boat to roll.
That said, my experience is the same as BK's. Boats with towers rock less. I can't explain why. I didn't believe it until I bought a tower and put it on my boat (not my M17). Everything I studied in college tells me it shouldn't matter, but it does. Aesthetically, I wouldn't have any problem putting a tower on your 80 Martinique. I have seen a Martinique with a tower on it and I think it looks great. Since it's open bow, it kind of looks like all the other open bow ski/wake boats. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=917" rel="nofollow - My 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.trooptrack.com" rel="nofollow - TroopTrack : The Best Scouting Software |
Posted By: Dank
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 4:42pm
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Joe, that would be cool. Shoot me some pics when you get a chance: kruzie @ gmail . com I'll need to do some cover repair before too long...maybe I'll incorporate that in. ------------- "I don't know what the world may need, but a http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=886&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - V8 engine's a good start for me" |
Posted By: Mojoman
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 4:49pm
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QUESTION, Not to threadjack, but do most states have a problem with towers/skylons and running at night with conventional aft, deck anchor lights?? Don't anchor lights have to be at the tallest point on the boat? If so, all these "add-on" aftermarket towers don't come with a retrofit or anchor light option, or at least what I've seen available?????
Just wondering.. Moj' 
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Posted By: Tate
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 6:37pm
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Thanks guys. I'm as confused as ever. I don't want the boat to roll but at the same time I don't want to ruin the look of the boat after an 18 mo. restoration(still not finished). ------------- Tate |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 6:42pm
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It's still going to roll, tower or no tower. I say, if you restored it, go with the pole. If you fixed it up, go with the tower. My $.02. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 7:08pm
Mojo, That is an interesting question, my 99' came from the factory with a tower and a conventional stern light and my 05' came with the light on the tower. |
Mojoman wrote:Posted By: 92'NIQUE
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 7:50pm
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Now that we've taken care of the physics questions, go for the tower! They really do add another dimension to the boat. I'm partial to Monster Towers for older boats (lets say... pre '95). Nothing beats FCT for newer boats('96+). I've never heard of anyone regetting installing an after market tower. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=548&sort=&pagenum=6&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 92'NIQUE |
Posted By: Tate
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 8:12pm
92 I looked at monster. They are good looking. If I do it I'll probobly go that route. BKH, hint taken. I realize that my def. of restore vs. some of the talented guys on this site are probobly very different. The boat looks great now. All I can say is you should have seen the "boat" I pulled home. ------------- Tate |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 8:33pm
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No hint Tate. I don't recall what your boat looked like. All I was saying is that if you took the time and effort to restore it to orignal, then my vote would be go for the pole so it stays that way. I'm sure your boat looks great. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: August-29-2006 at 11:18pm
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I'm curious about this.Do you think the boat would list more because with a pole you are putting a side load on directly above the point of attachment,whereas with a tower,maybe some of that side load is lost thru the bends in the tower and transformed into some form of downforce?Does that even make sense?
Mike |
Posted By: 64 Skier
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 7:39am
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skicat and Dchris. Not trying to be a smarta$$, and I would really like to know the answer to this question...and...since both of you must be engineers...having the torque generated below the boats Vertical Center of Gravity (VCG) with a Pole or above the VCG with a Tower could possibly be the difference.
I take no credit for my Towers design since I basically scaled down a CC design (see recent post) and started welding. But I did notice that compared to other designs, the geometry of the legs will try to place load on all 4 supports. If you take a look at the Tower I built you could do pull-ups from the Tow Point on the shop floor (not bolted down)without the thing turning over. The point being was the geometric nature of the design tries to load all four supports when in use. When transfering some of the "pull out" load to both sides of the boat..even a small amount on the high side..the list is reduced. I basically scaled down the CC design to fit my small boat...I think the Engineer who designed their Tower really knew what he was doing. The CC design is not just an elevated Tow Point...some smart guy sat down and did some head scratchin'. A factor much greater than Pole vs Tower is the width of your boat. Mine is a narrow 16' Tow boat. IMHO a wider model (like a Martinique) will do well with either a Tower or Pole since it's a lot wider than my ride. You can build your own...a lot of us have...but believe me, it's a lot more work than you think. Building is simple as well as installation, but there is so much more to it than just that. The Companies that do this for Profit IMHO don't charge enough. I buitl my own Tower because it's the kind of thing I like to do. Labor or Love! Hope this made sense! ------------- 64 Skier 66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1071&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 71CC |
Posted By: 2_Nautiques
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 8:31am
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05 210 - to address your question, as the boarder pulls to the side there is a down force from the tower that is transfered to the side of the boat, however don't forget that on the oppisite side of the boat there is also an upward force trying to pull that side of the boat out of the water. With everything attached to the boat, it doesn't matter how it is attached it only matters how far from the center of gravity the pull is generated (how high the tow point). Just my .02$ ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1160" rel="nofollow - 1988 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 77stang
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 9:26am
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the kid and i were discussing a topic for his science project. i think we found it. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1360&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - '77 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: great78
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 1:17pm
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2 Nautiques has it right(as do others)however the lever arm is longer on a pole as it attaches to the floor and the tower attaches to the gunnels. torque is force x lever arm so would be greater with a pole. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1314 - Missin' this 78SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1527&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - Lovin' this 96 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 1:23pm
I disagree. 2_Nautiques has it right. The point of the force is equidistant from the point of rotation (the hull) in both cases. It shouldnt matter how the pylon or tower is attached, as both are attached securely to the hull. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 1:41pm
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I agree with Matt and TIm,....great78 is correct about the formula but that is based upon the pivot point which in this case is the hull, so if the pole was slightly higher then yes it could list a ittle more but not that much to make a difference and screwing up the boat looks with a tower that doesn't match that well. I've only seen one that was custom made that looks good on that hull all other are disporportional and doesn't flow with the lines of the boat looks bad IMHO ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 8:37pm
This is what I was wondering after my first posted question.The point of rotation is the same no matter what,so I guess it would make sense that the list would be the same if the tow point was the same distance from the pivot point.It's settled then...Towers list less because we want them to after spending all that money on one!!  Thanks for the insight guys.
Mike |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 9:34pm
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[/QUOTE]...Towers list less because we want them to after spending all that money on one!! Thanks for the insight guys.
Mike[/QUOTE] nice logic the higher the ticket price the more weight it carries. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: The Dude
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 11:30pm
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That's just like, I ski better on my new ski than my old one because it's new and more expensive. ------------- Mullet Free since 93 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=717&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 95 Sport |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: August-30-2006 at 11:55pm
Exactly. I may be completely wrong,but it makes the most sense to me.But I like new and expensive as much as the next guy,so I can't say anything. Mike |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 1:56pm
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Mostly for Dank...
Here are some pictures of how my cover was modified to attach to and go around the extended pylon. The overlap has velcro on it... 
-Joe. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Dank
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 3:37pm
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Cool, Joe. Thanx for the pics. So I guess a new cover would keep my boat cleaner because it's new and expensive? ------------- "I don't know what the world may need, but a http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=886&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - V8 engine's a good start for me" |
Posted By: 92'NIQUE
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 5:27pm
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Speaking of covers, does anyone have any pix of how they modified a stock cover after a wakeboard tower installation? I've got an idea on how its done, but would love to see the actual thing. Thanks
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=548&sort=&pagenum=6&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 92'NIQUE |
Posted By: great78
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 7:31pm
here is one way   ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1314 - Missin' this 78SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1527&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - Lovin' this 96 |
Posted By: great78
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 7:54pm
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1314 - Missin' this 78SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1527&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - Lovin' this 96 |
Posted By: 92'NIQUE
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 8:32pm
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Ah....nice. Basically, cut and hem a slit around the legs, sew the velco to make a tight fit, and rig the draw string with a clip or "S-ring" for easy-on easy-off. Looks like this was done professionally (?). Thanks
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=548&sort=&pagenum=6&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 92'NIQUE |
Posted By: great78
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 9:00pm
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Yeah I had a local guy do it after pricing new ones. I dont know how it compares with others but the price was right and it works great. Looks like he added the flaps after cutting the slits so that the two pieces of velcro overlap 100% and lay flat. The drawstring thing is kind of cool he basically un-hemed the cover edge lenghtwise, and velcro-ed that too to make a pocket that will wrap around the string between the two pole cut outs. Just peel this open, unhook the S hook and the drawstring drops out of the way. Good luck on yours! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1314 - Missin' this 78SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1527&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - Lovin' this 96 |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 9:16pm
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That's exactly how the factory cover on my 210 works.Same cutouts and overlapping velcro around tower.Same velcro overlap to cover rope and clips.
92- There is a guy in Shapleigh that could probably modify your cover for you.I had him make 2 covers for me last year and they were both well done and reasonably priced.He is a very "interesting" dude to say the least,but has probably covered half the boats on our area lakes.I have the number if you want it. Mike |
Posted By: The Dude
Date Posted: September-06-2006 at 10:04pm
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That's a nice job 78...I like it! ------------- Mullet Free since 93 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=717&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 95 Sport |