Living in the country
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35172
Printed Date: May-15-2024 at 12:06pm
Topic: Living in the country
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Subject: Living in the country
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 12:34pm
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I'm sure there are at least a few of you that live out in the country. Our goal is to do the same within the next 6-18 months, depending upon what we can work out. What are some things that you would suggest considering, lessons learned, etc after living in the country for a while? I'm wanting to ensure I get some feedback from folks that have done it to see if there were things they overlooked prior to making the move and if there are things they would have done differently. We've been casually looking at some places online and going to go visit a particular place that has most all of what we want. Thoughts on modular homes would be helpful, also...quite a few of those for sale with land outside of the city. |
Replies:
Posted By: Treybizttu
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 1:07pm
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I can't speak for myself but my folks moved to our lakehouse (on 6 acres) full time about 4 years ago. My wife and I have been a big part of helping them with the house and land for the last few years. The nearest town is about 20 miles and nearest "big" city is about 60 miles. Once I have a little more time today I'll go through some of the stuff they and we have done to make life easier and fun down there for them. Lack of dependable utilities, water storage, gardening, wildlife, working/ commuting, all that fun stuff. In the mean time here are some pictures: Mom and Dad's retirement home... http://s256.photobucket.com/user/treybizttu/media/Lakehouse/LH%20Construction/imagejpeg_2.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The Original Cabin the Siblings and I share.. (Mom and Dad built it 24 years ago) http://s256.photobucket.com/user/treybizttu/media/n1356858149_902690_6637.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: *mtrbtr*
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 1:29pm
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How far out in the country? I grew up 12 miles from the nearest paved road and 40 miles from the nearest town, population 3000. Some thoughts. Get a Costco card. Make sure you have lots of gas in your budget. Enjoy those quiet evenings! ------------- 2006 SV 211 (sold) went to the dark side 97 Sport Nautique (sold) 89 PS 190 (sold) 05 Four Winns H180 (sold) 89 Four Winns 180 Freedom (sold) 75 MFG (sold) |
Posted By: Treybizttu
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 1:31pm
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I don't have much light to shed on the modular houses first hand but I grew up in the cabin pictured during the summers and was there almost every weekend for the construction of the new one. Wildlife: This will obviously depend on location and how far out you get but in the last quarter century we have had every manner of critter, bug, and thing living: around, under, and sometimes IN both houses. The log cabin was at a disadvantage from the start on keeping critters out but the stone house isn't exempt. You basically can't leave anything a varmint might want to eat uncovered. Even covered, they still seem to find a way in. Mom also can't keep any flowers around the house because the deer eat them right away. On the other hand, the love to have a heard of 15-20 whitetail eating at the feeder during breakfast. Makes for pretty good scenery with your coffee. On both houses we do tons of varmint prevention. Sealing every knook and cranny, traps, deterents, you name it. It keeps them to a minimum but I still get a dead mouse or mouse poo in the cabin very so often. Plumbing: Of course this part will be location and house specific but their house is in somewhat of a neighborhood and I use that term very loosely. About the only thing neighborhood about it is most of the homes and mini ranches share a large well and holding tank. It's old and doesn't have the greatest maintance so they have a tendency to loose all water pressure. I'm saving up to split a personal well with pops in the the next year or two. Since we are in centralish Texas it takes an act of god to get a hole deeper than 2 feet. Plumbing on the house itself can be a whole nutha adventure depending on the construction of the house. Every 2-3 years I have to crawl under the cabin and replace my homemade pipe insulation. We've only had one pipe freeze/ burst in the last 2+ decades and got lucky that we were there when it happened. It doesn't get super cold down there but it's something to think about especially if you are well north of the Texas/OK border. And getting a plumber out to the country can be an adventure in itself. You generally can't get someone there in 24 hours and most of the time they aren't the kind of folk you really want in your house anyway. Water Storage: We have water storage tanks on both houses. Each downspout on the stone house has a decorative 55 gal drum that helps immensely with keeping the yard alive in the summer. The cabin has two 375 gal water cubes that are hidden behind the deck. We use these for the veggie gardens and in case of emergency. In the last few years of drought these have been life and pocket book savers. I'll get into commuting, electricity, and more stuff in a bit. |
Posted By: Treybizttu
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 1:39pm
Thats for sure... And a big ol deep freeze. |
*mtrbtr* wrote:Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 1:39pm
We're talking about 20 miles outside of OKC. The area we prefer is a town of about 2000 with similar sized towns around a 20 mile radius. It would be what I would consider semi-rural and we'd have to go into OKC or surrounding cities for most major shopping, etc. |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 1:41pm
| No Costco here, but I think I've heard rumors of one coming. We do have Sam's Club, though. We already have a good sized upright deep freeze and definitely know the value of that. |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 2:08pm
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Well water taste? smell? how deep is the well? will your gen set power the well? Is the electricity reliable? Septic system age ? how deep is the tank in the ground? drain field? gray water discharge? Flood zone? soil? is the ground level? mowing grass? trees? types? surface roots? ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 2:28pm
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Got curious so looked it up. The Oklahoma City population is over 500,000 people and the metropolitan area is 1.4 million. No offense intended but could living 20 miles away really be considered "living out in the country"? ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 2:32pm
| That probably depends a lot on one's perspective. For someone that has lived mostly cities and suburbs, it feels like country to me. ;-) |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 2:45pm
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on the housing situation... things with wheels go down in value over time, houses included. I would only make a mobile home part of the plan if you can start real construction right away, and you are seriously committed to staying a long time. Resale in Rural areas is very much more difficult than in an urban setting as the target audience is much smaller, so plan on a long time to sell if you don't end up liking the country style of living. Factor in that if you purchase a mobile with property, and want to resell, you will take a hit on the house, and the land probably will not go up very much in value due to the market growth being smaller. - medical care is something that I would consider too, fortunately 20 miles isn't as far out as it could be, but if one of your boys gets hurt, that's an eternity to get them to a hospital. That said, the rural life does sound very attractive! good luck with your decision! |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 3:32pm
Agreed. The suburban sprawl on the north side of Atlanta is nuts, here on the south side civilization ends about 30 miles from the city. It just sounded like you were packing it up for Alaska or something. .. Not sure I'd wanna live in a mobile home there in tornado alley. ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 3:40pm
| Modular is not Mobile, they are pre-fabbed and assembled on site type |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 4:50pm
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Here's a video I found the other day with a multi-section modular showing a lot of the construction and installation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXUd-yUy0S0 Some of them, like the one we are looking at, can resemble mobile/trailer homes in that they are rectangular. But, modular seems to be built like the older homes through the early 1900's with floor joists and set above ground with a crawl space. It seems the common foundation design is kind of like a stem wall to support the various sections, that the home is strapped down to. That should fare about as well as standard on-site construction in a tornado. That being said, I prefer having a storm shelter, regardless of house style, especially being out more rural. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 5:37pm
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Like Quinner says, modular is not mobile, or specifically, modular is built to the same standards of "stick built" or "site built" homes. Mobile after 1976+- is actually Manufactured and built to HUD standards and is a completely different ball of wax, what people refer to as a mobile home. Those look like modular in the video, although it comes down to the standard that it is built to. If it's HUD, it's a manufactured home and has different financing altogether. If you ask a dealer what standard it's built to and they don't know what your talking about, they're lying. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 5:37pm
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That's a lot nicer than what people typically think of when they think modular. I'm sure you'd never regret having a full basement (a cellar as we say in Boston, we pronounce it cell-ah). It gives you a nice place for your heating, hot water etc. As well as a good place to store stuff. You hardly have a see a house without one around here. Of course, the upfront additional cost is more. |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 6:47pm
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Don't forget the cultural changes...if you have kids be aware drug use is typically far worse in small town America than in cities and suburbs. ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: December-19-2014 at 7:56pm
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modular/mobile is still a category on the MLS, and the value is considerably less for those homes classified as such, especially if it looks like a mobile. Mean house values for our area are in the 300k range, you can get a mobile/modular for less than 1/3 of that, but even in a bad neighborhood, you'd be really hard pressed to find a stick built house for under 120 that wasn't a complete teardown. Older/abused mobiles appear on craigslist from time to time here with a free sign on them, you just have pony up to have them moved. Having a real foundation helps, but there is still a perception of mobile/modular construction/quality, much like Brian was saying, that keeps the values from increasing in the same way a stick built home would. It may be the answer for Okie and his Family, I just would hate for him to go into the deal with his eyes closed. Perception may be different in Oklahoma as well, different parts of this country operate very differently. |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-21-2014 at 11:22am
We went to look at a couple places yesterday. This is an aerial shot of the one with the modular I mentioned; it is on 10 acres. The guy has done a ton of brush hog work clearing around the house and making walking trails through the woods. His shop is nice (it's next to the house but not in the aerial shot) and everything is laid out good. The house is decent, but I'm not sure about that part. Here is an aerial of a property we went by. Pretty good sized and heavily wooded, but has a creek right through the middle. We have explored purchasing and building with our mortgage banker and we could go either way. We'll look around some more and see which direction we want to go. 
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Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-21-2014 at 11:47am
| Does OK have a real estate law where the real estate agent has to state whether they represent the buyer or seller, or do all agents have to represent the seller? If they have to state who they represent, you should find a good buyer broker. Mobile and modular are not the same thing and you should know the difference before you buy. If you can't find a good agent that will represent you, find a good real estate appraiser. |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 11:32am
Yea, follow the track marks to the country?? As a blanket statement that is ridiculous, regardless of where you live it should be on your radar with kids. Several affluent suburbs of Chicago have had big issues with heroin use while my hick town does not, fact! |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 11:42am
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It's fairly well documented drug abuse is a bigger problem in rural areas compared to urban development. Don't take it personal. ------------- |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 12:07pm
------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 12:16pm
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I was raised in the country... moved to town when we got married in 75 (it was only supposed to be for a few years-turned out to be 15... hated it!) Moved back out in 1990. We have just under 3 acres. If I had my way I would stay there 24/7...except to go boating.  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 12:24pm
| My point being, Drug use with Kids is an issue everywhere and as parents we need to be aware regardless of where we live |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 12:26pm
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That didn't sound like your point and if it was there was no reason to call what 74wind said "ridiculous". Say you're sorry. ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 12:29pm
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Hmmm, 2000 people, that's a darn metropolis, LOL. I live in a village about 50 miles west of Chicago, population 658. We moved out here about 13 years ago simply because of the crazy prices of real estate at the time. We purchased a home twice the size we moved out of for half the price of the same home in the burbs. I work about 25 miles east, closer to civilization, so for us the big deal was making sure we planned for grocery shopping. We'd typically shop at the stores near work because the closest grocery was still about 20 minutes from home at the time, since then we've had a Jewel Store built about 15 miles away so things have gotten much easier. pros would be peace and quiet, no home owner association rules. I can build boats in the garage or store my motorhome in the drive. We have just under an acre which to me is plenty to maintain. We have a wooded area behind our house that is unbuildable so my view out back will never change. Our community sits between 2 others than are trying to grow so we have some sprawl east and west of us but we voted in a few years ago that any new home site must have 5 acres in order to build. We're letting the growth leapfrog us which is fine by me. Cons are you eventually get tired of the peace and quiet, LOL. Plenty of times we want to go to dinner or a movie and it's more of a chore than it's worth. Also when you put yourself out off the beaten path everything is farther away than it appears because of the lack of major roadways, everything is secondary 2 lane roads. Winter driving can be interesting which is another reason we MUST have a 4 wheel drive vehicle. We also have no city water or sewer so we have to maintain all that ourselves. Here's another draw back which irks me a bit is that a few years ago our village was incorporated into the county so our property taxes doubled but I'm too far away to enjoy any ammenities, like the park district, libraries, or an actual police force and fire department even though I pay for all of them. You do need to pay attention to schools if you have that age children, we didn't so it wasn't a concern. You also have to get used to your friends saying where the %&*%*& is Big Rock!! If we had to move again as much as I dislike being so far from a lot of things (including friends)I think we would still stay out of the burbs, the distance is a minor inconvenience to pay for being able to whatever you want without a neighbor complaining. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 12:30pm
Steve-No you were raised in the what we called the sticks. That is defined by how much gas it took in your 396 Chevelle to make a Mc Donald's run. 2+ gallons = sticks,under 2 = country. Bike or walking distance who you kidding you weren't cruising McDonalds anyway  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 12:46pm
uhhh,so many wrongs here... most "real city" people consider the city of Sterling in the sticks..it aint, heck we got a couple one way streets WITH traffic signals! We cruised Sandys (19 cent hamburgers) not McD's. We didnt worry too much about gas... well only to see if it was 37.9 or 38.9(yes cents) / gallon. Bike...you mean pedal?... thats why we had dirt bikes and road them right past a sherrif's house when I was 13. and finally my Chevelle is a 454 not that puny 396' btw, if I had my way, I would move out farther than I am right now.  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 12:56pm
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Exactly my point then---you had no Mc Donald's ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 1:20pm
what's even more ridiculous is why glue smells so good |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 1:22pm
.....and yet, somehow we survived.. (probably because we didnt have Mc'D's?) actually, I dont remember(or care) when we got our first one. however today, I like them.... since I discovered the $2 Jalapeno burger! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 2:51pm
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I'm ready to move up to northern Wisconsin and looking forward to it. I feel I'm past the point of having to worry about my kids on drugs. I do have a septic/field and well but that's no big deal to me. Shopping for me isn't that bad and about 15 miles to the "big" town. (McDonald's too LOL) Piece and quiet yes as well as living on two lakes. Lower taxes for sure. Internet connectable. 4WD for sure but I've always driven one. Move and enjoy! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: kytom2
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 3:38pm
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You guys don't live in the country! Heck my nearest neighbor is a mile away. I can shoot a deer from my front porch and never have to worry about anyone complaining. ------------- |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 4:42pm
We have buyer and seller brokers. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 4:56pm
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Same as here then. Get yourself a good buyer broker. I've been a real estate appraiser for almost 30 years and I wouldn't buy property without one. As far as modular housing goes, in Maine you usually get more house for the money than a site built house, because they can build them cheaper and often their finishes are of lower quality. If you're looking for a basic house and are more interested in the amount of living area and room count rather than custom features or quality, then they aren't a bad way to go. Best thing to do is to compare them to site built homes and see what you think. If you have a broker that knows a lot about new construction and modular housing, he/she will be very helpful. |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 5:04pm
Bruce, As an appraiser, how does the modular compare in terms of depreciation/appreciation vs. mobile and conventional stick built? Will the modular home appreciate like a stick built house? Do lenders value them the same when it comes time to resell? Most people here in SC heap the old mobile stereotype onto the modular home and although I don't speak from experience, it seems that the two are pretty different. There are lot of national home builders in my area (Crown, DR Horton, Schumaker) that build a stick built home that is garbage. If the circumstances were right (lake lot, country lot) I think I'd give the modular serious consideration. ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 5:12pm
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I'd really love to move out of the city. I consider any place where I have a driveway and a back yard to be the country. My job ties me to the city somewhat. But, I'd much rather be hunting deer from my front porch than hunting for a parking spot every day after work. Can't think of much I'd miss about the city at this point, although I did enjoy it a lot more in my 20s. |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 5:12pm
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My father in-law spent several years as a quality manager for several different modular home companies and basically you get what you pay for just like anything else. You can get modular homes with all the upgrades and they are built in a controlled environment at a faster pace. Most of his issues came when the local guy setting the home did not understand that the foundation had to be square. When you build a home somewhere else, it better fit when it arrives. Stick built homes can be made on top of not so 100% square foundations. I know because I live in a 1979 stick built home that is not square at all and I just found out as we redid the floors. When you order a modular home they have several packages you can choose from. I also believe some of the building materials are of a larger size ( 2 by 4's) since it has to be transported once. I still wonder when you do go to resell if the stigma is still there that it came in on wheels. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 5:13pm
| Steve, modular and manufactured are completely different. Modular are built to the same building codes as site built. Manufactured are built to HUD standards and are commonly called mobile homes. Modular homes qualify for typical mortgage financing. Manufactured homes usually do not qualify for typical mortgage financing or home equity loans. I've run into people over the years that were sold single or double wides which are manufactured homes as modular homes and they have gotten completely screwed because someone didn't know the difference or deceived them. You should be able to compare a modular home to a site built home as long as they are similar in quality, style and other characteristics. If you're in a market where the modular homes are obviously cheaper or inferior to site built for some reason, then they'll certainly sell for less on resale. |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 5:20pm
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Steve, I have an idea. Just buy a G25 and park it in the country and live in it. Better wait until spring to try this plan. Winters are not as fun.  Donald |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 5:22pm
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So, looking at the property with the modular, we walked away feeling unsure. The house is nice, but we're really concerned about not appreciating like a house would. I sensed a lot of hesitation from my wife on the floor plan and she talked a lot about what she wants. My thinking at this point is that we should consider getting land and doing new construction. We discussed this idea and she is totally on board...she's been scouring the internet for floor plans that have elements she wants. We looked at a couple good property candidates Sunday and it looks like we can find a good 5 acre wooded property for the price we would be willing to pay. My friend that we will work with on the mortgage already referred us to a builder and we've talked rough numbers...sounds like we can get the size house we want within our budget. So, thoughts on septic...aerobic vs non-aerobic? Thoughts on utilities...all electric vs electric plus propane? If we build, we definitely want a wood stove, whether it be free standing or insert...thoughts there on good brands and things you've experienced? |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 5:36pm
Here are a couple pictures of properties we looked at Sunday. Both of these are 5 acres total, in a little different areas out where we are looking. It seems like we can probably find a fairly wooded lot, in that size, for the price we want to pay.   
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Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 6:02pm
I happen to have a neighbor "just about" across the road, so I have hunt deer out my back door. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 6:24pm
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I would do electric with propane, since your building you could easily put the appropriate electrical outlets where your major appliances are incase you want to change them in the future. I would also look at having a generator installed to handle times when the power goes out for an extended period. No idea about septic systems, I just had to be far enough out to where being close to the lake was affordable. While those trees are nice, that looks like a great place for a Copperhead, be sure the wife is OK with the occasional snake or 2 around the house.
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Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 8:30pm
the one thing i would always look at is on a lot you are interested in i would lean towards something that borders land that is either not buildable or is national forest if possible. make your 5 acres 500 + ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 11:33pm
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I can shoot bears from my front porch. No deer though, that would save me a lot of money. I would pipe for propane in the future but just plan on using electric for all except heat if it gets cold enough where you're at. Propane is not bad but not user friendly IMHO, I advise against LP. Propane tends to leave a residue overtime in the kitchen. If you can get natural gas, go that route for all appliances. Scratch the generator. Marginally convenient at best and is a major expense you will not get a return on. A 3600 watt geni will do everything you need. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-23-2014 at 11:51pm
Todd, This idea only works if you are at home during the power outage. Then there's hauling it out and hooking up the extension cords. A whole house and auto transfer switch isn't that expensive these days. What do you consider is a "major expense"? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-24-2014 at 12:10am
The example property I showed backs up to around 200 acres that borders a small river...seems that would be pretty nice. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: December-24-2014 at 8:59am
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If you buy land, make sure & get the mineral rights. Sometimes they keep the mineral rights & later will build an oil derrick in your front yard. This happenrd to a guy I knew, who started out with a nice view of the mountains, not anymore! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: December-24-2014 at 9:15am
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Pete, It's been a few years so my pricing could be off. I refuse to get involved with "whole" house generators but $10-12k bill is what it should cost all said and done. Purchase lets say a 12kw (over kill but homeowners think they need 20kw) generator from Generac which is the most common. Generac basically gives you a free 100 amp transfer switch that comes with 6-20 amp circuits. Useless. That means find 6 breakers in your house that you want powered, the rest nolo juice. So now our whole house generator really means just the kitchen. So we throw the free Generac switch away and buy a 200 amp standard auto K switch from Cutler hammer so we can transfer the entire generator to the entire panel and not just the 6 circuits as before. This is a $2k hidden cost. Now install it all and meet minimum code clearances with exposure, window location etc. pay someone to install. Often a concrete slab is needed. Generators take fuel. So now unless you have natural gas (again, another reason I'm a fan of it over Lp) you have to either lease an lp tank or buy one. Those who lease usually buy it when it's time to renew. Install/bury tank to meet local codes for exposure and clearances. And fill the tank. Now when you are in an emergency you have to supply that 36hp or so engine with fuel, even though 90% of the time you're only using 2000 watts. Or permantly mount a 12x12 box on side of house with hinged cover. Install extension cord there back feeding entire panel. Wheel a 3600-5500 watt generator (that we all prob already have) out when you need it, plug it in and use only the electric you NEED. A 9 hp engine will burn less gas. As for not having power when I'm not home..... I'm not home. Fridge will last 6 hours easy. Take the 11,500$ you saved and buy a Correct Craft. |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-24-2014 at 9:34am
Usually not an option in this area any more, from what I understand. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-24-2014 at 10:03am
I installed a whole house 7.2 KW natural gas Kolher with a Cutler 100 amp transfer for just over 4K. I would not buy a small Generac since they buy surplus Chinese engines and label them a "Generac". The 1800 low RPM "silent" liquid cooled are OK since they are 4 cylinder common engines typically USA made. Again, with a portable, you still need to be home to hook it up! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: December-24-2014 at 10:09am
------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-24-2014 at 10:40am
| Anyone have experience doing concrete floors versus tile, carpet or wood? |
Posted By: SWANY
Date Posted: December-25-2014 at 3:15am
Can you be more specific with that question? Are you evaluating doing a foundation compared to slab? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-25-2014 at 9:37am
Andy, Yes, as Joel asks, specifics would be great. With the exception of a garage, I'm not in favor of a slab. However, it also depends on soil type, soil moisture retention and frost depth as these factors affect movement from frost. With a slab, you also need to consider under slab and slab perimeter insulation especially in a cold areas. The perimeter is commonly overlooked. I've seen plenty of slabs where the snow is melted around it from heat loss. Finish flooring on concrete isn't a problem as long as you follow the directions from the flooring manufacturer. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: December-25-2014 at 2:00pm
| Sorry about that...I was referring to concrete flooring without tile, wood, or carpet. Typical construction here is a concrete slab and we're thinking about having it super smooth finished, maybe with a colorant added to the concrete and not doing any flooring on top of it. Imagine what you would see in Home Depot, but maybe with a different color than just plain gray. |
Posted By: SWANY
Date Posted: December-25-2014 at 2:34pm
| I've been a carpenter for 13 years, I always find it interesting how different regions build homes, When you say most are on slabs. I framed with a guy for several years that worked in Alaska for 20 plus years, completely different beast up there |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: December-26-2014 at 12:25am
| I was building my country dream home, I'd definitely have to have some kind of wide pine boards. Finished, but with a lot of knotty character to them. Maybe a bear skin rug on top. |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: January-19-2015 at 8:10pm
So, turns out the 2nd property and another one north of it have flood zone on the property. I'm not going to deal with that. We went to look at the first property in these pics again, and got a chance to talk to the closest neighbor. It sounds like it is a nice quiet area and it has about 11 houses on an 80 acre area right now. Several people have multiple lots totaling 5-10 acres, so it will probably only end up being about 13-14 houses back in there, on about a 1/2 mile dead end road. The property to the east is about 80 acres owned privately another property like that further east. Seems like the best one we've seen so far and we may end up pulling the trigger. The neighbor said the area is nice and quiet, land seems to perc well, neighbors are all real nice, electric is reasonably priced and there is plenty of wildlife around. The river back behind the area has a big swimming hole that a lot of people use and some four wheeler trails. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-30-2015 at 8:02pm
|
I thought I'd comment when building a house on what decent insulation can do. I just got my utility (gas and electric combined) from my up north house and shop. I've mentioned it before but not in detail. House: 750 sq. ft. 10 days at 40 degrees 5 days at 68 degrees 15 days at 0. (heat shut down) some electric for a 4'x 6' pump room at 45 degrees $116 Shop: 1500 sq. ft. 5 days at 68 degrees 25 days at 40 degrees Bathroom set at 68 all month $44 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: January-30-2015 at 8:46pm
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Leave it to Pete to have a shop twice as big as his house. ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-01-2015 at 1:03pm
| Nice! So what is the insulation set up you did? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-01-2015 at 4:02pm
2" iso under and the perimeter (very important) for the slab. Full fiberglass bats in 2x6 walls with 3/4" iso sheathing. No plywood for diagonal bracing - use the steel let in at the corners to meet code. 18" fiberglass blown in in the attic. 6" energy heals on the trusses. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-01-2015 at 4:19pm
|
Both the builders we're considering use the zip board system and do blown in bat n the walls and attic. We're thinking 2x6 exterior walls with the blown in bat. Do you know your R values? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-01-2015 at 5:48pm
R28 walls (Bats not blown in), R66 attic (blown in fiberglass) and R20 under & perimeter of slab. What's the "zip board" system? Bat doesn't get blown in!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-01-2015 at 6:05pm
Maybe the terminology isn't quite right...that is what the contractors are calling it. This is what they are talking about... Zip board: http://www.huberwood.com/zipsystem/home-zip-system |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-01-2015 at 6:07pm
| From talking to the contractors we may end up with around R50 in walls with the blown in and zip board, and R70ish in the attic. We don't get as cold here as you do, but we definitely get hot. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-01-2015 at 7:55pm
Looks like blown in cellulose to me? How can you end up with a R50 in a 2x6 wall? What are they doing in the attic to get R70? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: February-01-2015 at 7:58pm
|
ah blown in in the walls nothing like 70" of r 40 and 20+ " of r 2 2 yrs after install ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-02-2015 at 11:57am
I may be a little off on the numbers, but I know it was fairly high and in that range. One of my coworkers has had that type of insulation in his house for years and has a very efficient house. peter, can you elaborate? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-02-2015 at 12:36pm
Andy, You're defiantly off on the numbers. Cellulose R is real close to fiberglass batts so you would get about a R20 in a 2x6 cavity.. Blown in is slightly more labor intensive but the raw material is cheaper since it's ground up newspaper. I'm not a big fan of it and as Peter mentioned, the common problem is failure of the binder. When that happens, you end up with a dense pile at the bottom of the cavity and nothing at the top. Google R values of insulation. You will find that iso foam is the highest. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-02-2015 at 11:00pm
|
So, checked with one of the contractors and he said it is cotton, blown in, with the netting. It is in multiple sections and it can settle a bit, but apparently not a lot, from what he says. Thoughts on this? He did confirm that it is around R50 in the walls and higher in the ceiling. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 12:30am
Sorry Andy but I don't believe him on that R factor. "settle a bit" Well, I wouldn't like insulation to settle at all. At least he's truthful with that problem. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 8:34am
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Andy, I did some "research" on the net on cotton. It was disappointing to find the R value is lower than glass , installation is difficult and settling is a big problem with blown in. "Cotton Insulation vs. Fiberglass Insulation It's already been established that cotton is a superior product from both a health and an ecological perspective. While those are good selling points, the thing homeowners are most concerned with is R-value or how well it insulates your home. Insulation made from cotton has a general R-value of 3-4 per inch compared to fiberglass insulation batts with R-values ranging from 5 to 7 per inch. In short, cotton insulation isn't quite as efficient as fiberglass, an issue that is usually addressed by installing thicker bats or more layers. By increasing the thickness of the layer of insulation you install you can easily raise R-values to comparable levels. The one downside of that, however, is cost. Expect to pay 15-20% more for cotton than fiberglass insulation to achieve similar insulation levels." I'd sure recommend looking at tried and true fiberglass. That "salesman" that told you about the R50 must be smoking something! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 10:33am
| I found some similar information and had a lengthy conversation with one of the contractors (who happens to also be an acquaintance from church). I was off on my numbers and he said a 2x6 wall with the cotton insulation blown in and packed is R30. He has his house done that way and I also have a coworker that did the blown and packed many years ago. Both of them rave at the energy efficiency of their homes and their low utility bills. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 12:13pm
4 (the high end of cotton) x 5.5 is 22. Still not a R30! I rave too with fiberglass batts and the utility bills have proven it to me. What about the settling he admits to? Any blown in in the wall cavity relies on a binder. If the binder sees any moisture, it fails. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 12:19pm
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He says the settling is usually minimal (1/2" or less). One of the advantages I understand to the blown in is it being more air tight (filling in air space around the wiring and plumbing in walls) versus the batt. My take on this whole thing is that ensuring the most insulation material possible is in the walls for the amount of money you want to spend is the right decision. Batt or blown in seem to perform well and it seems there are lots of good "reviews" on blown in. Foam seems to be the best, but the cost difference might not be worth it. That's the conclusions I'm coming to reading through things. Am I way off base here? |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 12:24pm
|
Being sealed and air tite usually does yield some benefit as a system over bats, but installation care makes a big difference with either system. The system you showed a picture of is blow in blanket which is a fiberglass blown in product, a very nice system but still typically an r26 max. Chasing anything better than that for the walls that far south would be pretty aggressive by my thinking. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 3:24pm
This is especially true when batts aren't installed properly. I've seen some pretty sloppy jobs. Batts can't just be stuffed in the cavity. They must be cut so they go around both the front and back of electrics and plumbing. The facing should be stapled top , bottom and sides to the framing members. An air infiltration barrier such as Tyvek should be part of the wall construction. "more air tight" with blown in is true but by how much? You can still blow through it. The only true air tight system is spray foam. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SWANY
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 4:55pm
| I would focus more thought on your windows (your greatest heat and cooling loss) than the R value. R-21 to best of my knowledge is the greatest that you can buy in a bat form 2x6 framing |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-03-2015 at 5:15pm
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I agree that air is an issue and the insulation won't stop that (except the foam). That zip board system along with window frame air infiltration barriers should cover that piece. SWANY, agreed that windows are also a big consideration. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-14-2015 at 9:13pm
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https://homes.yahoo.com/news/tankless-water-heaters-improved-140000649.html" rel="nofollow - News report on tankless water heaters I got a kick from them calling them "thankless water heaters" ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-16-2015 at 9:32pm
| Hmmm, interesting. |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: February-16-2015 at 10:31pm
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pretty tough to beat a boilermate system it gives you 40 gal or more hot water storage depending on the tank size , i Know the HTP stainless 40 loses 1 degree per hr at 65 deg ambient temp it is a proven system it has worked well for many yrs before the tankless system became so in vogue . I bet the boilermate v.s your avg tankless system doesnt matter more than 25$ per yr in your avg home ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: February-16-2015 at 11:41pm
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We have had a tankless water heater for 7 or 8 years and are currently on our second unit. The heat exchanger on the first one actually froze one day when we were at work. The high that day was around 10 below. That coupled with a wind blowing into the exhaust pipe= the problem. At that time, we actually looked at going back to a tanked power vent, but decided to go back to another tankless. (This one has a small electric heater on the exchanger that will come on if water temp gets around 35 degrees). Even tho the installed cost was about 1/3 higher than tanked, We never run out of hot water. We have a larger whirlpool tub that alone takes around 50 gallons of water. You can fill it, use the shower, run washing machine, etc. We always have hot water. For what its worth , https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=gas_tankless.pr_savings_benefits" rel="nofollow - Energy Star says average savings around $80/year/$1700 over life of heater. Also nice to have the extra floor space where old heater was. They may not be for everyone, but have worked great for us. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 12:03am
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 12:15am
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Yeppp tub is right next to the outhouse. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 12:22am
I wanted to use this one but was kindly reminded about drinkin and drivin' and no one would volunteer to be designated driver ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 12:31am
The Energy Star figures are misleading and I consider it to be marketing hype. It depends on where your hot water tank is located and if the heat loss adds to your heated space or not. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 12:43am
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We have a Bosch Aquastar that has been in for 7 or 8 years,like it for the same reasons as Steve. Have not touched it since it has been put in but you are supposed to check and clean some valve.I have been advised that the Mrs can feel the temp fluctuating so when I get back it looks like its time to clean or replace the valve,it's only 21.00 for the rebuild kit which includes a new valve. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 1:43pm
| So, for you guys that have them, would you do it the same way if you had to do it over again? Do you have hard water? |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 2:11pm
| I myself, I kinda hate them. I can feel temp fluctuations as well as pressure/volume fluctuations. I've wired more than one that I've had to go back and re wire for a tank jobbie a year later. When I bought my last house I had to replace my tank immediately due to it leaking. In order to replace it I had to remove a load bearing wall and expand a door opening. An insta hot would've dodged these issues and saved money as well as space, but I opted to stick with a tank given my experiences. |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 2:31pm
We did replace our first tankless with another tankless. I think it is a Bradford White. The first one we had to mix cold water with the hot to achieve a non-scalding temperature. This one we just set a digital display. And yes.. our water is very hard, with LOTS of rust. We use an Iron Guard filter system to remove it. Then to the softener.. both before the heater. The only down side we have found is when rinsing dishes you need to throttle the water. If you turn it on and off you will get hot and cold waves. (we knew that when we purchased the first tankless). No big deal tho. Dont want to jinx it, but have had no issues with temperature inconsistencies at all. No pressure variances, etc. We are on a well and I have my pump set a bit high. Hope I dont need to replace for quite a few years...Overall cant say I wish I had my old 50 gal tank heater back. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 2:50pm
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Same here I like the room I have gained,and the fact you never run out of hot water.I have a shallow well and a water softener and the heater is gas fired. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 3:01pm
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Todd, how many have you replaced with tanked? / what brand tankless have you worked with? Definitely not my experience..  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 3:12pm
Hopefully the point will last. It's hard to find anyone these days that will drive a shallow well anymore. The danger and liability of getting bad water to too high. You never know whats coming down that river you live on! The way around having to drill a well is driving one yourself when no one is looking. I don't think you would be able to do it since you have gone into the lifestyle of heated seats! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 3:35pm
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We actually live in a narrow area that has springs Pete,there are 3 of them on our property and we are using 2. Dad hand dug them and lined them back in the 40's. I did have the foot valve fail last year and the tank bladder fail this fall but that's just normal maintaince to us. We have the water tested thru the county every year. When a neighbor built back in 05ish it disrupted mine but it now has come back. I went to have a well put in but that was during the building boom, one guy finally said he do it he even got the permits, and never showed up! I wasn't out any money so I didn't care . Glad he didn't I hear the waters not too good. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: February-17-2015 at 7:22pm
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guys i wasnt refering to tankless systems v.s 40 gal vented gas systems i was comparing to 40 gal or larger boiler mate style off of your forced hot water system. there is nothing wrong with the tankless systems I have installed a number of them . if i had forced hot air heat i would use one if i has forced hot water i would go the boilermate route and last i would choose the 6 yr warranty lasts 6 yrs 6 mos nat or l.p vented tank . ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |