It should be true
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Off Topic
Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16590
Printed Date: June-17-2024 at 10:00am
Topic: It should be true
Posted By: Waterdog
Subject: It should be true
Date Posted: February-18-2010 at 6:26pm
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A Retired US Marine named Doug was taking some college course between assignments. He had completed tours both in Somalia & Iraq. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist, and a member of the ACLU. One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, GOD if you are real then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes! The lecture room fell silent. You could an ant burp. Ten minutes went by and the professor taunted, "Here I am GOD, I'm still waiting! It got down to the last couple of minutes when Doug got out of his wheelchair sipping his Geritol spike with Gatorade And walked up to the professor, and threw an uppercut. It was a beauty! It came up from Mississippi, swept across Georgia And into the everglades of Florida, then shot straight up to Canada, knocking the professor out cold! The he went back To his wheelchair and sat silently. The other students were shocked and stunned, that an Old Marine Geyser like Doug still had it in him. It took those same 15 minutes for the professor to come to. He asked Doug, "What in the world is the matter with you? Why did you do that? Doug replied calmly, GOD was too busy today protecting America's Serviceman & woman who are protecting your right to say stupid stuff and act like an idiot. So, He sent me! The classroom erupted in cheers!! The moral of this story: If you don't know GOD, don't make stupid remarks! The reason why most people can't find an opportunity is because it's normally disguised as hard work ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Replies:
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: February-18-2010 at 7:06pm
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Sure do like those Marine stories.
My son is a Marine. Semper Fi! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: hasbeenskier
Date Posted: February-18-2010 at 8:49pm
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Yeah, I like Marine stories too. But I love GOD stories.
bj ------------- hasbeenskier |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: February-18-2010 at 9:00pm
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I'm over 30 years now combined military and fedral service. My son and nephew are in Afganistan right now. These kind of take no crap + God morals give my peace in my soul that on a small level we Americans are doing the right thing.
I just love this line - " The reason why most people can't find an opportunity is because it's normally disguised as hard work." ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: February-19-2010 at 10:58am
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The guys from our unit are leaving on 02/24, 02/26th and 03/01...
Too bad I can't go with them. Really wanted to do my part! But I'm on the roll for the next tour (somewhere in december). We'll see. It's just frustrating that my post has been cancelled due to budget cuts  .
My thoughts go out to all who are in harm's way over there and protecting our way of life... Dog, hope your son and nephew will return safely! ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-19-2010 at 1:06pm
That's a good one. I've seen it before, but never tire of seeing it again.
Fo sho! I like the one about the atheist college professor and the piece of chalk too. |
Yeah, I like Marine stories too. But I love GOD stories.
Posted By: Hawktique
Date Posted: February-19-2010 at 10:43pm
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Semper Fi ------------- "A Veteran is someone who at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to: 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life." Semper Fi |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: February-21-2010 at 5:49pm
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Nice signature line there Josh...! ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-22-2010 at 2:38am
Just another reason to like and respect you bj... Sure was great to see you this weekend my friend. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-24-2010 at 7:59pm
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Funny, I have the upmost repsect for our service members but the God stories are a little far fetched. I wonder if god was naping when the Holocaust was taking place? And the balls to actually believe Jesus Christ who, as it turns out, was born of a virgin, cheated death, and rose bodily into the heavens—can now be eaten in the form of a cracker is just crazy.
If you were indoctrinated into this stuff as a kid I can see how you became brain washed but if your reborn or didn't become religious until you were an adult then there is no excuse. People, educated people, with college degrees believeing in this stuff... unreal. To think the earth has only existed for 6000 years.. I think Carlin summed it up pretty good... "But folks, I have to tell you, in the bullshiz department a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. Because when it comes to bullshiz, big-time, major leage bull, you have to stand in awe--in awe!!--of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. Religion--easily--has the Greates Bullshiz Story Ever Told! Think about it: religion has actually convinced people--many of them adults--that there's an invisible man who lives in the sky and watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And who has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to remain and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry, forever and ever, till the end of time. But he loves you! He loves you, and he needs money! He always needs money. he's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, but somehow... he just can't handle money. Religion takes in billions of dollars, pays no taxes, and somehow always needs a little more. now, you talk about a good bullshiz story. Holy Shiz!" But I still love inboard boats! ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-24-2010 at 8:17pm
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How to win friends... ------------- |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: February-24-2010 at 8:52pm
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phospher,
I just said a Lords Prayer and a Hail Mary for ya.(a loud) For God is in My soul. This Great Nation is founded on religous values and many have given All so you can be free to say your will. Myself I'm not afraid to die. I don't want to, but kind of look forword to the other side.(the next great adventure) When it's your time will you have peace? ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: hasbeenskier
Date Posted: February-24-2010 at 9:00pm
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Phil,
I don't have all the answers and I am a miserable example to follow. At one time in my life I was the college educated thinker wanting to rely on no one but myself and my abilities. I felt the same way you do now. Things have changed in my life and all I can do is have FAITH that the GIFT of forgivness and everlasting life is true. I used to like George Carlin and was very aware of his views on religion. I have wondered many times what his view point is now...that he is dead. bj ------------- hasbeenskier |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: February-24-2010 at 9:18pm
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Phil, does not really matter what you believe in.. I just hope that you believe in something that will help you to get up each morning and justify the good and the bad you experience each day.
Seems when folks fail to believe in something, they do not appear as happy to me. I am happy that you and I are both here today and hopefully tomorrow as well. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: February-24-2010 at 9:41pm
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Well said Critter. ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 1:07pm
Could you give me more detail here because the U.S. Constitution does not contain a single mention of God that I've been able to find. Furthermore, contrary to popular belief the founding fathers were not Christians. They were deists who did not believe the bible was true. "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) They wanted to ensure that no single religion could make the claim of being the official national religion. But in the 50's the Christians managed to get "In God We Trust" inscribed on the currency. This was a direct violation of the first amendment.
Actually, this is a reason why people are Christian. They are afraid to die and need to feel like there is more after life. You see it's a crutch.
Ummmm, I'm dead I won't have anything.
I'm well past college age.
Faith is nothing more than the license religious people give one another to keep believing when reasons fail.
I can respect that Critter. I am happily married, with a family and successful career and I enjoy life. That is more than enough to keep me going. Riddle me this, If I tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him or that I have the best boat in the world you would likely require as much evidence as possible. But if you tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible man he seems to require no evidence what so ever. Why is this? Why does religion always get a pass? ------------- |
Posted By: Hawktique
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 1:23pm
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I myself am not a religious person by any means. I believe in what I believe in. I will not, however, ever debate someone else in their beliefs. It's a simple respect issue for me. Every person is entitled to do as they please, until it directly imposes on my freedoms. Then and only then, will I stand my ground, and eliminate my threat! ------------- "A Veteran is someone who at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to: 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life." Semper Fi |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 1:28pm
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I hear ya Hawktique but when I read all this God stuff It's like they are pushing THEIR god beliefs on people who read this forum and someone needs to call them out...I know religious views are taboo, and not to be spoken about shhhh. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 1:59pm
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Someone starts an off topic thread that mentions God and you find it neccesary to "call them out" and post your beliefs and debate Christianity? Perhaps you should start your own thread for that debate? ------------- |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 2:06pm
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Riley,
Precisely. Someone starts an off topic thread telling me about how god sent a man to punch him in the jaw. Then someone replies how he loves god stories. Seems like a perfect time and place to me. It is in the off-topic section right? If people post about the powers of God I'll be the one to call a spade a spade. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 2:16pm
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You must enjoy argueing and not worry about insulting people. ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 2:49pm
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Religion, politics, and child rearing..... ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 3:33pm
I'll take a stab at this one. Sometimes a person doesn't need proof to believe something and sometimes they do. "Proof" can also come in many forms. As far as those that believe in what the Bible says, you will find it contains both. Some things in the Bible have evidence to back them up and some don't. Someone in the thread mentioned Jesus and his resurrection. That is one thing in the Bible that has evidence to back it up, along with eyewitness accounts. Put that in today's context. Let's say you flipped on the news to a live report at a funeral home. The camera zooms in on an empty casket. They claim a man rose from the dead during his funeral. They interview many people that witnessed the event. However, the man is nowhere to be found right now. Witnesses state that he left the location to go visit others. Would you believe it or do you have to see the man for yourself? If that happened 100 years ago and you are right now reading the news story on the internet, does it change your view on whether you believe it? I'll throw a question back... Do you believe we landed on the moon? |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 4:59pm
Yes, I happen to believe this as it's a well documented and recorded by the scientific community. By critical thinkers and people who demand real evidence. Though I know there are also a lot of stories that say this isn't true. ------------- |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 5:14pm
Yet another well put comment! ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 5:17pm
Yep, there are skeptics, for sure. The point here is that you believe it based upon the account of others and the evidence they have presented. You did not personally witness it. The account of Jesus' death and resurrection is well documented, and not just in the Bible. There was also a very deliberate intent by Him to ensure He was seen by a large number and type of people. Very similar situations. It would be difficult for me to understand why a person could believe one but not the other. If you want to see evidence of other Biblical events, simple google searching will send you in the right direction. If you really want examples from me that you can research further, I'd be happy to point you in the right direction. |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 5:49pm
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That's part of the problem. You can't seem to differentiate real evidence.
As far as evidence for the moon.... "There is a lot of evidence that has been in the public domain for over 30 years now. in the form of photographs, images of spacecraft taken by astronauts in other spacecraft as well as images of the spacecraft heading towards the moon by telescope from the Earth, video records broadcast in real-time and seen in real-time, scientific experiments placed on the moon (whose placement was clearly documented by the lunar photography including still photography by the astronauts and video images transmitted in real-time), moonrocks and samples returned from the surface of the moon which support the supposition that they resided on the Moon (by examining the chemical makeup of the rocks, isotopic abundances, cosmic ray exposure ages, radioactive dating techniques, etc.), and by the astronauts themselves both in situ on the lunar surface and after their return to Earth." Can you see the difference? Again, there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of God. When you mention biblical events that is nothing more than cherry picking the bible. Do you know how many religions there are? A lot, and people who believe in them more so than yourself. If you were a Vegas man you wouldn't bet on your religion being right based on odds alone. ------------- |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 5:56pm
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It's just a story, nothing more nothing less. Phospher you seem like a numbers guy, what percent of America has some sort of religous belief and what precent are non believers ? This is NOT ment to offend but sure got some people's blood pressure up. I'm no holly roller by any means. I think I know a good story that's worth passing on - well maybe not.
------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:05pm
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If I recall correctly from a recent poll it's 92% of Americans that believe in a God. I think two main reasons it's that high is because people indoctrinate their children into this stuff before they are old enough to think and make decisions for them selves. And also because no one questions it and it's widely considered taboo to even question someones religious beliefs. ------------- |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:11pm
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<sigh>
I really don't want to get into a long drawn out debate with you about this. I agree with this...
BUT...I will say this... You're actually changing the subject here to fit what you want. I never said there is evidence of the existence of God, per se. My point is there is evidence of many things stated in the Bible, including the example of Jesus' crucifiction and resurrection. The evidence is out there and much of the recent evidence has been discovered and documented by the scientific community. In my mind, seeing that many things in the Bible have evidence to support them allows me to reasonably conclude that the other items without evidence are probably true too. Eventhough I don't have tangible proof I can hand you that you will believe, I happen to believe God exists. I think it is pretty hard to deny just looking around at the wonders around us. Thinking that all happened by chance and something is not in control of that seems far fetched to me. Anyhow, in the end, you asked a question and I answered. I gave an example of evidence and there is more out there if you want to find it. It's your own personal choice what you choose to believe and why you choose to believe it. I know I am at peace with what I believe and I would bet my life on the fact I am correct, which in a sense I do, by being a Christian. If I'm wrong and there is no God, I will die and that will be the end of it. If I'm right, well I can't even imagine how wonderful Heaven is going to be and I'll be glad I believed it. If you're at peace with what you believe, then that's all that really matters. Ultimately we each make that choice on our own. |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:30pm
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Bottom line is that no matter what you believe or how hard you try to convince some one that what jesus did for all of us really did happen,unless someone is willing to believe through faith they will allways go through life as an athiest or an agnostic to believe that they themselves are the author of what life ultimatly holds for them. ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:30pm
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Okie Boarder,
Let me ask you one final question. If you were born and grew up in Pakistan do you think you would still be a Christian? No, you would be Islam and you would surely believe in Islam just as strongly as you believe in Christianity. Can you see my problem with this? Did you know that 1 out of 4 Americans believe that Jesus will come back in their lifetime? The Christian story doesn't sound silly to people because it's been around for 2,000 years. To understand how silly it is you have to look at the new religions like scientology and mormons. ------------- |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:39pm
That's a tough one to answer. I think it would depend a lot upon whether I was ever taught about Christianity and the Bible. Are you trying to say there are no Pakistani Christians? |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:44pm
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No, I'm sure there are a few Christians. But over 97% of Pakistan is Islam. What are you chances? Then again, I realize your not a gambling man.
If your honest with and use reason, common sense, evidence, and intellectual honesty religion cannot stand on it's own. ------------- |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:49pm
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I really enjoy reading these conversations; and I enjoy having them. Everyone's thoughts are valid and come from experience, incorporated values (from parents, teachers, and culture in general), and individual thought. I always learn from others' perspectives. Of course it is easy to become defensive while talking about such sensitive issues.
Words like: faith, God, Christianity, and Jesus, can and do evoke a lot of different images in people's minds. It's easy to get emotional about those images, at least it is for me. For me, the apostle Paul said it best. "You can have enough faith to move a mountain, but without love it doesn't mean a thing." How humbling that is, my religion without love is meaningless, my beliefs without love are empty . . . faith isn't what I need; it's love. And it's in love where I find God. Chuck ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:49pm
And that's kind of my point too.. You never would have formally been taught about Christianity. It's not like Lutherans teach Islam on Sundays. Surely you can see all the beef I have? And to be honest this isn't 1% of it I could really go on for weeks. ------------- |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:54pm
That is a nice quote. It is and I'm not being sarcastic. But do you know what else the bible says? The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). You can't just cherry pick the good! I also think it is very narrow minded for anyone to devote them selves to any one religion without studying them all. ------------- |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:56pm
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Even 2000 years ago when jesus was walking the earth people would rather believe a lie than to accept that he was the son of God ,all other religions that exist be it islamic or mormons, these are mortal men who took the gospel and turn it into what was best for their personal beliefs IE Jim Jones, if you look at the core of all these religions they are based on hieracy and lies ,i think that has proven itself over over again but if you wish to believe that if you blow up yourself and thousands of others in the name of allah and you will be rewarded ,then as i said people who choose not to believe the truth are open to believe a lie. ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 6:56pm
Surely there are other forums out there just for this. ------------- |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:02pm
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Jesus went to the cross for love of us all, no one says it but you cant see love or prove that it exist but we all say and feel it everyday with our spouces and our children and our familes. ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:04pm
Interesting isn't it how this kind of stuff gets kinda of icky feeling . . . wish it were easier to talk about. OK, onto a new story, "A rabbi, a priest, and an attorney walked into a bar . . . and met . . . ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:05pm
If the forum doesnt interest you HW then go check out the one about the mating habits of rhesus monkeys  ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:11pm
Phil, I had an employer for 14 years that was also a good friend that had similar views as yours. We've discussed all this over and over through the years. After a while it becomes pointless and is no longer interesting, and really is better to be left alone as it gets in the way of why we have come together. (Boats built to the glory of God)  ------------- |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:14pm
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Good point Riley ,its a win/ lose conversation ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:30pm
It's easy for me. I don't get any icky feeling. I just can't believe that educated adults believe this stuff with absolutely zero evidence and they won't even question it. They are 100% sure. That's called Blind Faith. I would love to hear your comments on this video, it's 10 minutes long. Basically, it tells how your really worshiping the Sun. To me, it seems a bit quincedental. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3i6UwVkP6M ------------- |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:40pm
I know I'm probably beating a dead horse here because you seem very convinced in your belief. There IS evidence of many things that are written in the Bible. You could say the evidence presented isn't convincing enough for you, but to claim there is no evidence requires ignoring of certain information. |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:41pm
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What is that you worship Phil,im not trying to be rude just curious ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:41pm
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Blind Faith toured last summer. Anyone see them? ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:43pm
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Phil, you make many assumptions about people. To me that sounds like ignorance and bigotry, but do go on. ------------- |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:43pm
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Hey Phospher,
I'll try and check out the video -- don't have time to right now. Just noticed your signature, do you live in the St. Louis area? Chuck ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:49pm
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ive seen the video also have seen L ron hubbard video, they are all the same ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:50pm
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The Lake,
No I just have that in my signature because it points out the earliest of certified inboards. I actually live in Wisconsin. Davee40, I'm an atheist and have been since around the time I stopped believing in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy. I must say, talking about this is almost as fun as talking to the Jahovah's when they come to my door. I had a Jehova witness return to my house 5 times and try and convert me. Man was that fun. Eventually, my wife got really mad and yelled at the guy to leave and never come back. She thought I was wasting too much time. ------------- |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:53pm
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Riley,
Please do point out any invalid assumptions that I make about people. I certainly do not claim to know everything. ------------- |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 7:57pm
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Thats a cult too,you failed too answer my question being an athiest what do you worsip ,ive met people that were close to genius and in all that brainage ive never met one that believed in a divine creator. and your wife was right to slam the door in the guys face. ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 8:01pm
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Thats a start your saying that maybe you are wrong for an atheist thats a positive ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 8:01pm
I'm not getting into a religious debate. People have died in wars over religion for centuries, and it still continues today. I enjoy a good debate, but nothing is going to be solved here. I am not a religious person, and factually, I understand many of the points that phospher makes. However, I owe Waterdog one, and so . . . The Constitituion is not the basis for the founding of the this Country. It was not written until 1787, and was not ratified until 1788. It is the Supreme law of the land, but it is not the basis for the founding of our country. The Declaration of Independence, is, by its very title, the foundation of our status as a country. The first paragraph of the Declaration reads as follows: When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 8:10pm
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Brian if youll check your history a good portion of our forefathers were bible believing christians and you can see that in history the reason you see GOD on all your currency is evidence of that, and by the way the LAST war will be over religion, read revelations it will tell you who wins ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: hasbeenskier
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 8:36pm
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I am hanging on every word! More more more.
bj ------------- hasbeenskier |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 9:35pm
Davee40,
Maybe I don't understand your question but I don't worship anything and I sure wouldn't worship anything based on Faith alone. Do you know the definition of faith? Faith = firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Unfortunately, you can't reason with people of faith which is why this is always a never ending discussion. They all seem to know something non believers don't. And your also wrong when you say,
That is incorrect. Atheists don't claim to be 100% sure that there is no god. Atheists instead say that there has never been one shred of evidence that a God exists and therefore there is no basis that anyone should ever believe in this stuff. There is a very distinct difference. BKHallpass is right. This is nothing more than Christians trying to rewrite history. The "In God We Trust" was not insribed on all currency until 1956. And I can tell you that, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen and Benjamin Franklin where not Christian. The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers. ------------- |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 10:02pm
|
let me give you the true definition of faith its the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen ,as i said before when people are not open to god he will not be open to you, because anyone who chose,s not to believe will be lost forever. for the simple fact that god gives you the choice to be ignorant. ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 10:06pm
|
Hold now. I asserted no opinions here.
Waterdog said our country was founded on a belief in god. The Declaration of Independence does seem to support this with its reference to Nature's God. You asked Waterdog to support his opinion, and I threw up the support for him. However, as you have pointed out, 12 years later, the leaders of the country at that time went to some lengths to pronounce separations of church and state in our Constitution. I'll give you some relevant facts as well. The fastest growing "religious associated category" in the United States is atheists and agnostics. Some polls show numbers now as high as 16%. The numbers are higher in correspondence with the number of years of education, and they are much higher in the west than in the South or Midwest. The only opinion I'm going to state is that it really doesn't matter to me if someone believes in a god of any form (Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Islamic, etc . etc.) or of they believe in no god. It matters to me how they conduct themselves and how they treat other people. Most religions I've observed provide a decent framework to lead one's life. If followed I think folks from most any religion would be conducting themselves properly in my eye. Others don't have a religious framework, and conduct themselves just fine as well. For now what I believe is that I'm going to grab another Beer and go back into the garage. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-25-2010 at 11:38pm
Sounds like a nice guy. And if this world is the best god can do I'm not very impressed. And your definition is very close to mine. I understand, it's a tough pill to swallow most Christians have invested a lot of time in their worship. And I agree with Bkhallpass. Atheism (which I really think is a bad term) is on the rise. A tribute to older people dying off and younger people becoming more educated. Just look at Western Europe. Europeans view us as a religious backwater. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 10:53am
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Phil, you are no different than the obnoxious johova witness, just a different view point. I don't doubt at all that athiest are growing as the political progressive group is growing also. ------------- |
Posted By: PAPA
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 11:08am
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Phil, You being from Wisconsin,I just was wondering were you wearing that cheesehead thinking cap when you figured out you were a atheist,you said it was about the same time you found out about Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.
|
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 11:42am
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This whole discussion has me intrigued.
Phil, I'm still curious about how you look at a couple things. Let me throw a scenario at ya. Let's go back to our moon landing discussion for a second. Now, let's pretend there wasn't all the pictures and video and samples from the first moon landing. All we know is NASA said they went there. I would assume that you would question it at the least, right? Now let's say in 1999 we sent another expedition to the moon. This time we have all the photo and video evidence of it truly happening. In addition the expedition goes to the same point on the moon the first one supposedly did. While there, they found evidence of that first expedition. Things like a flag stuck in the ground, footprints, tire tracks. Would that be enough evidence for you to believe the first expedition did actually take place? |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 12:40pm
So now you are attacking me personally because you can't dispute my facts? You have to give me something better than that..But I understand there just isn't anything there. In addition to the I'm just as obnoxious as the johova witness comment. I'm not knocking on your house door or forcing you to click on this thread am I?
See, now this is what scares me. "Cheesehead thinking cap" as if I'm the crazy one. You talk to imaginary people. In any other aspect of life this is called Schizophrenia but as I've stated religion always gets a pass.
I certainly would.
Probably, but I would have to look at at all the details. This is very different than believing in God. Saying that there is a magical invisible man who lives in the sky who is all powerful and all good demands more evidence than a foot print and a flag pole. These are prosperous claims. we are all atheists with respect to Zeus and Thor. Only the atheist has realized that the biblical god is no different. ------------- |
Posted By: PAPA
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 1:03pm
|
Phil, I was just funnin' with you. Just enjoying the thread and interjecting some humor from someone who isn't such a deep thinker. I respect everyones opinion even if they are wrong . Again just a joke to lighten up things a bit. I totally respect your opinion and your right to speak your mind. Now, how about a cold one.
|
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 1:07pm
I can appreciate that! :) I'll certainly take you up on that cold one after work... ------------- |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 1:50pm
Thanks for the answers. That kind of confirms what I thought about what it takes for you to believe in something. You're definitely a hard proof kind of guy. You sound very intelligent and educated and I'm sure you've studied a lot of different religions. With that assumption, I'm sure you know the Bible fairly well. If you know Revelations well, maybe you can answer this for me. If Jesus were to return in our lifetime and all the Christians were swept away, as the Bible prophecies state, what would your reaction be? If the prophecies continued to come true (Seven seals and Tribulation stuff), would your reaction be different or your belief change? In other words, would you believe in what the Bible has to say and the possibility God exists if you were seeing those type of things with your own eyes? |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 1:59pm
|
Yeah, I think this type of subject can get a little emotional and beliefs or opinions are usually deeply rooted. There's no reason for personal attacks.
Phil, While I don't agree with you and I think there could be points made on both sides of our discussion, I don't intend to attack you personally. If something I said did or does, call me on it. I wouldn't mind having a cold one and getting all philisophical with ya sometime. I always enjoy a healthy debate / discussion. |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 2:02pm
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Okie Boarder,
My comment about attacking me personally was directed to Riley. ------------- |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 2:11pm
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Phil,
Yeah, I realize that. I was just commenting on it and throwing my 2 cents out there along with a statement to you for future reference, you could say. :) Did you see my post before that with the additional questions? I'm curious as to your response. |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 2:14pm
|
I just pulled up Yahoo to go to my email and saw this story...thought it was a little applicable to the discussion...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_reunited_scroll - News Story |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 2:44pm
Ah the Rapture. Something like 44% of the electorate believe that Jesus will come back in their lifetime. The ego of these people. "Yes, Jesus is going to come back in my lifetime and of course he's going to want me!" When we have presidents making political decisions based on faith there is a real problem. Why care about long term society if you think there is going to be a rapture? You can imagine how this is a dangerous state of affairs. Of course, If I witnessed any of this it would change my beliefs that seems the only logical thing to do. If this happened the first question I would ask god would be why did you go through pains to hide yourself? Again, I go back to saying that there is no reason and no evidence(real evidence) why anyone should believe in this stuff. If I told you that the holocaust never took place you would immediately demand evidence and when I couldn't provide it you would regard me as a crazy conspiracy theorist. The only evidence I've ever heard Christians point out are Cherry Picked scriptures from the bible. They selectively pick and choose verses out of context which justify their beliefs. You can't have it both ways. "Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says." (1 Corinthians 14:34) "If any man takes a wife, and goes in on her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin..." (Deuteronomy 22:13,14) "But if ... evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones..." (Deuteronomy 22:20,21) "Slaves are to be submissive to their masters in everything, and to be well-pleasing, not talking back ." (Titus 2:9) I mean c'mon have you ever questioned your religion and looked at it critically? You are basing your belief an a book written 2k years ago by man who thought the earth was flat and that a wheelbarrow would have been a breathtaking example of emerging technology. ------------- |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 2:56pm
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All in all it takes more faith to believe that God does not exist as opposed to beleiving that everything in this universe did not just all of a sudden happen. ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 2:59pm
Interesting. Well, I'm glad to hear that you would believe once presented with enough information to convince you. I pray that we WILL see that happen in our lifetime, so your eyes could be open to the truth. That's an interesting question you would ask God and I think it is a good one. I hope you get an answer to that someday. I agree with you on the ego thing to some extent. I think it is rather egotistical to think you know when God's plan will unfold. My stance is that I believe it "could" and I'm going to just make sure I'm ready in case it does. I also agree that the beliefs shouldn't affect political decisions like how you presented them. We shouldn't live like or make decisions thinking the rapture is going to occur and the world will change in say 50 years, so why plan for more than that. Not a good approach and I don't see where that would even be supported Biblically. I'm not going to debate Bible verses with you, their meanings and how they apply to today. That's a never ending debate that won't get us anywhere. I will comment on one though. Titus 2:9...you posted that one and I would assume that you have a problem with the idea of someone being a slave, is that correct? |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 3:30pm
Couldn't disagree more. And all of the sudden? More like millions of years. ------------- |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 3:33pm
Of course, don't you? ------------- |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 7:41pm
Nope. We're all slaves to something (someone). You might be missing the point of that verse and taking the single sentence out of context. Many times the Bible talks about slaves and/ or servants and teaches us to obey our masters. That portion of it explains to us how we are to have humility and ultimately gets put into full context with respect to what Jesus did. Jesus lived His life in service to others as an example. He GAVE his life as a service to mankind. The other part of the context of those types of verse talks directly to the masters and how they should treat their slaves / servants. Many times you will see that the Bible instructs masters to treat slaves / servants in a humane way. When taken in full context, the Bible instructs masters to treat servants / slaves as you would treat a member of your family, with love and respect to a certain degree. <sigh> I'm not sure why I just took the time to type that all out. I'm sure you probably don't see it the same way. I don't know though, maybe you'll read what I wrote and look at it a little differently than you used to. |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 7:45pm
I would state what Dave said a little differently... It's easy to believe something when you have proof and evidence sitting in front of you that is undeniable. It is much more difficult to believe something that requires a certain amount of faith. In regards to the question you said you would ask God, Phil. My OPINION would be that He would answer you like I just stated. I believe He would say he didn't reveal Himself fully to you because He wanted you to have the challenge of faith even when others tried to convince you otherwise. |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: February-26-2010 at 10:56pm
LOL. I'm not sure why either of you bother. You are no more likely to make phospher believe in a god than he is to convince you that there is no god. You'd both have better odds of winning the lottery.
Whether Atheist or Missionary, I guess you have to admire someone whose convictions are so strong that he or she will talk to hundreds or thousands hoping to convert just one. Me, I'd rather buy a lottery ticket and spend my time asking people to help with worthwhile causes like helping veterans, kids, schools etc. I guess I just like a little better odds. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: February-28-2010 at 3:10pm
|
I can admit ive never convinced an athiest or an agnostic to change how they think that i know of, but when confronted i think its allways best to stand up for truth . not to argue but to at least plant a seed for thought. ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: February-28-2010 at 4:38pm
|
Certainly people convert and/or change there opinions. But, in my opinion, the ones that do are already searching for a reason to believe or not believe. When someone is already steadfast in his or her convictions around this matter, there is almost no chance you will change his or her mind, regardless of which side of the fence you are on. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: February-28-2010 at 5:20pm
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davee40,
Wait.....
So you are an atheist or at least a deist. People shouldn't pretend to be certain about things they cannot possibly be certain about. Okie, I am a slave to no one. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-28-2010 at 5:35pm
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God doesnt believe in Athiests....you need something to believe in, something whether it be what we know as god himself or a higher being, someone you can talk too besides your other personality lol, really though its the faith that comes from within your soul that there is good in this world, im sure you guys have been in the worst drunk of your life throwing up everywhere and im sure your first thoughts were God, I'll never ever drink again...that is a hidden faith that deep down is instilled in your being.Faith has been questioned because technology caught up with us, imagine in the 1800's when the world shook as it just did in Chile, people ran to thier churches, Mayans sacrificed people because of thunderstorms and those were the thoughts of those days but that has slowy left as technology could explain why things happen and the result was a lack of faith. you have to believe in something, I know there is an in between to where ever we end up, maybe a place where the aches and pains are no longer, no wheel chairs, a place of peace, but beyond that i dont know...thats faith, and if your wrong and you dont believe in something, well i guess you will find out ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: March-01-2010 at 2:58pm
|
Phil,
IMO, you're kidding yourself. We are all slaves to whatever we believe in and the things that consume our "being". That is the reason for the question earlier in the thread about what you worship. We all "worship" something in some way, shape or form. |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 1:44pm
|
Okie,
I'm not sure what kind of slave your talking about and I don't understand when you say "the things that consume our being". Like Fast Food? In any case, I'm talking about human slaves. One person owning another. The bible is pro-slavery and it's also clear that women were put on earth to serve men, to keep their homes in order, and to be incubators of sons. Have you ever studied Deuteronomy 22? Check out Deuteronomy 22:28-29 GNB. ------------- |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 2:10pm
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Hey Phil,
The Old Testament has got some color! The stories are rich, full, and as you have noted well, at times quite troubling. Those old stories just don't fit so well into our society. What a culture that was back then, most of the stories come from a period of time when the people were nomadic and survival was a daily top of the list concern. Not just survival of life, but survival of culture. I think that if one does thorough study of Jewish Patriarchy in comparison to the other cultures of the era there is a discovery, that at times, the Jewish law code was an improvement, a move forward. The concept of the Year of Jubilee, for instance was very innovative, allowing people who had fallen on rough times to become self sufficient again. I'm not sure it is fair to take what we know about relationships today and apply it backwards. Slavery for instance. Yes there were slaves in biblical times; it was accepted practice, but a far different practice than the slavery of the US in the 18th and 19th centuries. In biblical times slavery was seen, and is often translated as service, and slaves were viewed, sometimes, as family. It was not considered, at those times, even among the "servants," as unjust. Fortunately society moved forward and those relationships changed. The larger point however is that Scripture introduces a "New Covenant," one not based on adherence to the old law code, but based on love and bringing hope to desperation. Which is the point, I tried to make earlier. The "New Covenant" introduces concepts like peacemaking, self sacrifice for the common good, hope for people who were blind, sick, imprisoned, and poor. There was a growing equality found in the "New Covenant," where there was no rich nor poor, no Jew nor Greek, no male nor female, no slave nor free -- all were one. But the biggest single point of the New Covenant is this: it is not what you believe it is "Do you know you are loved, and do you love others?" And that is where our hope is. Sadly, through the years, the church (the institution) has failed, at times miserably, in living in this covenant. Wonderfully though, the church, and by that I don't mean the institution, but the organic church has been caught up by loving others and when that happens, hope comes. Thanks again for your thoughts . . . it's always good for me to think about such important things. Chuck ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 3:05pm
|
Phil,
You and I are looking at it from two different perspectives, in a sense. It is still possible for people to be slaves to people in this day and age and it happens quite frequently. It happens in a way that is less obvious than what you are thinking. However, that wasn't what I was talking about, per se. My point is more on the comment you quoted..."the things that consume our being". I'll throw out an extreme example...an alcoholic. An alcoholic worships alcohol...it is his god, so to speak. Alcohol consumes his being and he is a slave to it. It controls his life. We all have vices and we all have something(s) that hold great importance in our lives. Those things (or sometimes people) are our gods. They are what we worship and what we are slaves to. Here's something to think about. Would you rather worship or be a slave to something in this world that offers you nothing but instant gratification, or would you rather worship and be a slave to God, who IS love and provided you a path to everlasting life shared with Him? That's the way I look at it. You might not see it the same way, and that's fine. In the end, the choice is yours. Like I said earlier, if you think you do not worship anything and you are not a slave, you are kidding yourself IMO. Chuck did a pretty good job of comparing OT to NT and the New Covenant and what it means. It is important to understand the history and culture of the OT and it is important to understand what God commanded the people to do back then. It frames a context as to why Jesus came an what the overall purpose is. Many people like yourself interpret that as how we should live our lives today, which leads to the type of thoughts and comments you have shared with us. It is understandable to have those types of thoughts and comments when the entire context isn't taken into account. Like Chuck said, thanks for the thoughts. Every time thoughts like that are shared, it challenges people to look deep into the belief and into the Bible's teachings to understand them even better than before. *(One side note that Chuck elluded to is that slavery was common back then and different like he noted. However, God was commanding his people to treat the slaves better and to take good care of them, also providing them with guidance and discipline. When fully understood, this shows you how God was instructing his people to do better...to be better, than common society at the time) |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 4:00pm
I think it's clear I think that the story of God/Jesus, Christianity, and all other religions is just that, a story made up by man 2k years ago. I can understand why you WANT to believe in it. It is an amusing story and you were probably either indoctrinated into it or you had some kind of life altering event. God, he's all knowing, all powerful, all loving, yet he allows so much suffering, death, and destruction. Yet people continue to pray to him as if he can influence what happens here on earth. Doesn't sound like a nice guy to me... And one I would rather not be associated with. So, to answer your question if I would rather live an eternal life with god. No, I would never live with someone who could have fixed all the suffering children in the world. I would have some really choice words for someone like that. It's also important to point out that there is plenty of scripture in the NT that supports slavery. As technology continues to advance and people continue to become more and more educated religion will eventually fiz out just like Zeus, Isis, Thor and the thousands of other dead gods that lie buried in the mass grave we call mythology. ------------- |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 4:42pm
|
Phil, I've been sitting back for awhile as well watching the comments being posted and I feel the urge to ask you.
If you believe that there is no God then how do you explain how you got here? Did you (I don't mean that personally) evolve from an ape like some have suggested or was there some big explosion and poof you were here? I'd really like to know. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 5:17pm
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Human beings are three dimensional, that's all we know.There's a lot more to this world than any person can understand. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 5:57pm
|
Morfoot,
Unlike religion, I don't claim to know all the answers which cannot possibly be known. Any scientist must concede that we don't fully understand the universe. However, it's very clear that the bible does not(nor any other religious book) represent our best understanding of the universe. As far as how we got here, I think the best explanation at this point is evolution by natural selection. Random genetic mutation over millions of years in the context of environmental pressures. Christians pray all the time. I'm sure there have been situations where parents are praying for their child who has lost a limb. They pray that God allow the limb to be regrown. This happens to salamanders every day, presumably without prayer. Hmm. Will you even question your faith, your religion? Probably not because your taught not too. This is what makes reasoning with people of faith an impossible task. Essentially, religion is brain washing. After all Christians don't believe Dinosaurs ever existed. Humans should use the same criteria we use in every other area of our lives to judge the reasonableness of these extraordinary claims and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I don't think Religion is as great as you all think it is. Have you any idea how much hatred has been caused by religion? Most wars, the crusades, the inquisition, arranged marriages to minors, 9/11, the suppresion of women, ethnic cleansing, human sacrifice, burning witches, condoning slavery, and Priests molesting children. My beef is not with any one specific religion. It's religion in general. Though I hold Christians closest because they hold the majority here in the states. Based on a lot of your locations, I think I picked a religious fight with the bible belt ------------- |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 7:10pm
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Phil, do not understand where you are trying to go with this subject,do not know what your motives are either.I have met you and considered you to be part of us or we would not have invited you to our campsite nor engaged you with conversation till wee hours of the A M.
But with that being said I think you are totally out of line here.I will not display my religion nor condemn others for that basic right of religious freedom.If you do not believe there is a higher power that is your call.I will not try to introduce you to the God of my understanding. If I do, I have crossed that line. Please have the same respect for others on this site, such as Karen and I,that have been given to you.DO NOT TRY TO SHOVE YOUR BULL *************** DOWN MY THROAT UNDER THE GUISE THAT EDUCATION PROVES THERE IS NO GOD. I have read all you have to say and some comments from others here that YOU HAVE OFFENDED, myself included. This is a site about boats, motors and the buying , selling and trading of info pertaining to our passion. If your mission here is to promote an agenda that is contrary to my believes, again YOU have crossed the line.You clearly have have problem with that word GOD, and the concept, comfort and understanding that comes with that empowerment. I think you need to take your ball and go home.We will not cry nor beg for your return. I will also save my prayers for those that need a little help to get thru day to day life, sounds as if you need no one in your life but PHIL.Must be a lonely life you lead my BOY. Now get back to questions answers and pics of old boats,and step down off your soap box............. We have had enough of your political and religious views!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 7:45pm
I can handle this discussion about religion. But what's this about not believing in Santa? He brought me a new pair of wake skis last year. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 8:05pm
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Boat Dr,
Now that's the Christian response I was looking for. Did you learn that in Sunday School?(Just Kidding!) I'm sorry that you are so offended and worked up. I think up until your comments we were having a somewhat civil conversation. Seems like you are ok with Political/Religious comments so long as you share the same views. Sure sounds like hypocrisy to me. I never forced your mouse into this thread. You chose to read it. You could simply ignore it if you wish but considering that it has received over 1k views I think there are plenty of people who find it interesting. Just one correction, I never said there is no God. There is no way for me to know or prove that there isn't. What I said was that there is not one shred of evidence for anyone to believe that there is a God and that religion is the one aspect of life that requires no proof and always get's a pass. Tullfooter, LOL, I would be interested to hear what you think of wake skiing. My brother who is a big snow skier just bought a pair and is looking forward to using them this summer. ------------- |
Posted By: hasbeenskier
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 8:35pm
|
Phil,
I need to back track and catch up with this thread. I appreciate your continued reponse to comments and questions. A note for now is...It is not a fight and you have seen to it, It is a goooood discussion. bj ------------- hasbeenskier |
Posted By: hasbeenskier
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 8:40pm
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Hey Doc don't rain on my parade. We are having fun here. It is in the off topic catagory.
bj ------------- hasbeenskier |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 8:42pm
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This is correct Phil,but as I remember the conversation we had around the camp fire that nite, your life was a WRECK and getting even worse.Possibly the reason for the circle of friends that we had that nite.
There is a lot of life that I cannot change nor have control over, but several phone calls on this subject brought me into this thread.Most are having a ball with you, attitude and views are not well received regardless of what you think. There are lots here that I do not agree with, Chris and I still go toe to toe, but he and I add to this site.If 79 called and needed me I would be there in a heartbeat, and I think he would do the same for me. Then there are those that come here to stir s hit or to ruffle feathers just because they can.There are those that I will call PREDATORS,they add no good to the site as to the mission that Keith intended this to be. You Phil have now been added to this P list in my DATA FILE....With the amount of prayers that were said in and around your boat at the start of every work day and the christian atmosphere your boat was built in, I ask one question. Why would you own a CorrectCraft, or did you not know the Christian beliefs that the Maloons followed in every aspect of their lives. Sounds like you are the hypocrite,not me. Too remain true I have one request ................ Sell your boat and buy a Mastercraft,God is hiding out in your boat waiting to get you.Do it now before it is too late.I could possibly change your life for the better........... Gotta go/ you are not worth the time nor my prayers.........Billy ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: March-02-2010 at 9:04pm
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I'll just say that I'm enjoying the discussion to a point. At some point you can tell it's not worth trying to convince the other, but I'm always one for a healthy debate. I also think it is good to share what you believe even if your intent isn't to convince or convert the toehr person. At the end of the day, we all have our beliefs and it's good to respect each other's beliefs. I pray that each one of us finds the truth someday and our lives are better because of it.
Phil, My prayer for you specifically is that you continue to have an open mind and heart and that someday God will reveal Himself to you in a way that gives you the proof you need to believe in Him. |