Damper Plate Question
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13050
Printed Date: June-11-2024 at 1:03am
Topic: Damper Plate Question
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Subject: Damper Plate Question
Date Posted: March-16-2009 at 12:47pm
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I have a '93 Sport with the Pro Boss 351 and PCM 1.23 Tranny. I tried searching put didn't see the exact problem on any of the other posts, but if I missed it, I apologize.
It's looking, or sounding like I'm due to replace my damper plate. Whenever I put the boat in gear (forward) at an idle speed, there is a clanking or rattling noise. Once I throttle up to cruising speeds, the noise goes away. So, I have a few questions: 1 - Does the damper plate sound like the problem? 2 - I feel like I'm moderately mechanically inclined, but have never pulled a boat tranny. Using the "bottle jack method", is this a do-able task? 3 - Are there any other parts I should consider replacing if/when I replace the damper plate? 4 - Which plate do I need? Is it this one? http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R140016? - SkiDim Damper Plate 5- Is there a better place or plate that I should get? Thanks in advance for any help! This board is incredibly helpful for people like me with their first Nautique. |
Replies:
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: March-16-2009 at 6:17pm
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Sounds like a damper plate, probably a lose spring. While you're in there, check the teeth on the flywheel and depending on the number of hours, rear oil seal. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-16-2009 at 6:25pm
| I've got 370 hours. Guess that info would've helped in the initial post. |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-18-2009 at 5:21pm
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I'm going to add some additional questions to this post that I've come up with as I read more and more about this. Looks like this post is going to require some of Eric's expertise.
I've read through a bunch of posts about the damper plate replacement and it is apparent that the best method to tighten up the plate is to tighten the bolts finger tight, then reinstall the tranny/bellhousing to center the damper, then tighten the bolts through the starter hole. In looking my motor over, I've realized that I don't have the traditional starter that I had hoped to have, instead I have a plate attached to the top of the bellhousing with a solenoid or something attached (I don't know the correct name for this). With that in mind, would the next best method for tightening be to leave the bolts finger tight, slide the BH/tranny back on to center, then slide it back out, hoping it's all still centered, then tighten? I'm at a loss since I don't have a traditional starter. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-18-2009 at 8:25pm
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MN - Eric surely will have the best method (tighten after transmission assembly), but you could use 3 countersink screws - tighten them down for centering, then replace those with the normal screws 1 at a time. I did this & it got the damper to within .001 on center. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-19-2009 at 10:29am
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drill a 1" hole on the belhousing at the bolt location and sneak a socket through the hole, your local hardware sells plastic plugs to cover the hole....its well worth doing it this way if you cant sneak through the starter hole ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-19-2009 at 10:35am
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its important to get that damper plate centered or it will possibly side load the input shaft of the trans, its as important as prop shaft alignment ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-19-2009 at 7:47pm
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Thanks for the info guys. I had my local Nautique dealer order the Damper Plate yesterday through PCM, so I should have it within a couple of days. I'll try to tackle this project next week or weekend, depending.
I'll probably do a good tranny draining while it's out since I'll be able to access the drain plug. Also going to check the alignment when I get it all back in. Anything else I should do while I've got it out. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-19-2009 at 8:32pm
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To drain the tranny - just turn it upside down when it's out. Don't bother with the drain plug, I have been told they aren't easy to get out. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-19-2009 at 10:41pm
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SN - thanks for the heads up.
Eric - I guess I was having a blonde moment when looking for the starter because it was right in front of my face. No need to drill a hole in the bellhousing now. Can I just sneak a socket with an extension through the starter hole to tighten the bolts or does it require a special tool? Trying to make sure I have everything before I get into it. |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-26-2009 at 12:56am
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Another couple of questions - I've read a bunch of threads about putting spacers between the flywheel and damper plate. Is my engine and transmission one that will require that method (93 Pro Boss with PCM 1.23)? If so, how many flat washers do you stack? Is the replacement plate that I ordered from PCM a direct bolt-on or will it require any modifications?
Sorry for the constant flow of questions, just stressing about taking this project on. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-26-2009 at 10:27am
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6, it will be round instead of triangle, I was told you didnt have to space just simply pull it in with the bolts, I decided to space them with hardened washers of the same thickness, the round damper will line up with your bolt circle and you wont have to modify ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-26-2009 at 3:17pm
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Hey Eric,
Can I use a clutch alignment tool and tighten the dampner to the flywheel before the engine is installed? ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-27-2009 at 7:36pm
| When I unbolt the tranny for removal, is it better to unbolt the tranny from the mounts or unbolt the mounts from the stringer. Didn't know if one would keep the alignment better than the other. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-27-2009 at 8:27pm
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MN - Alignment should be rechecked anytime the transmission is removed, so it doesn't really matter wher you break it loose. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-27-2009 at 9:49pm
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Thanks SN-
I'm definitely going to align everything once I'm done. Just figured I'd make sure that one way wasn't recommended. |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: March-27-2009 at 10:02pm
I'd rather unbolt it from the cradle. The mounts will be 'feet' when you put it back together and maybe make for an extra handle. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
mndanielsncsu wrote:Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-27-2009 at 11:31pm
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MN - Another trick is to loosen up the mount adjustments while the tranny is up on the bench. It's much easier to break them loose there. I did not do this but wish I had. Breaking them loose in between the stringers was not fun.
Ps - Sorry for my tone above, didn't mean to be critical. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-28-2009 at 12:04pm
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Andy, the damper hub is smaller than the ID of the pilot on the crank so a tool will not work ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-28-2009 at 6:33pm
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I was able to get everything taken apart, new damper plate off, new damper plate on with 2 Grade 8 washers on each shoulder bolt between the flywheel and new plate, and tranny back together. I left shoulder bolts finger tight, as recommended, to center the new plate.
I am trying to tighten the bolts now through the starter hole, but am having a hell of a time finding the right tool to do it. I bought some crows feet, but they aren't long enough to reach around the OD of the flywheel and damper plate to get to the bolt. Any recommendations on a tool I can buy and where to buy it to finish this job? |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-28-2009 at 7:19pm
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Per Eric:
use a 90 degree swivel box end ratchet wrench ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-28-2009 at 8:04pm
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or, you can drill a nice hole in the bellhousing which wont affect the integrity of the housing, and you can find plastic plugs at the hardware store, if you have access to the correct tools you could drill and tap th housing to 3/4 npt and pipe plug it.......thats if you cant find a suitable wrench that will work. i use a 90 degree swivel box end gear wrench.
now if you run into problems aligning we will also help you with that, i feel mis-alignment is one of the most important overlooked maintanance requirements on a boat and when aligned you will notice a difference if it was out of align. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-28-2009 at 11:35pm
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SN and Eric - thanks again for all of the input and advice. I wasn't having much luck with tthe 90 degree swivel wrench, so I went with a 90 degree swivel ratchet and 1/2 socket and was able to get everything tightened up without drilling a hole. Here's a link to what I got:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942794000P?keyword=90+ratchet - Craftsman 90-degree Ratchet I printed out your how-to on alignment, so I'm going to tackle that tomorrow. Mine is a little off. Nothing too bad. If I run into any issues, I'll definitely let you know. Thanks again guys! Your advice is on point. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 12:58pm
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I think if you dont shim the damper out, we are going to see early failures on them.
i have no idea what knucklehead designed and put his stamp on the PCM Damper. it simply does not fit and is the only one in existance that will work with the 10 spline PCM trans. I called and was told to simply pull the damper in until its flush, nofcnway, thats wrong, doing it that way loads the plate and puts stress on it these simple alignment checks and adjustments are what keeps the boats in the water for the short boating season, the weekend warriors always seem to have thier boats at the shop....writing with a smerk ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 1:19pm
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yeah, the springs between the flywheel and damper would've definitely created some problems had I not put the two washers (6 total) between each bolt and the plate. The washers created a nice even gap and gave the springs some breathing room. Great advice.
I'm headed out to try to tackle the alignment, replace fuel sending unit, and maybe drop it in for a test depending on how long it takes to get this stuff done. I'll keep you guys posted on the results. I'm a little nervous being that was my first experience in damper plate replacement. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 1:29pm
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if you run into a problem, even though its the day of the lord and im praying all day you can call my cell phone 330-322-8817
eric ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 3:26pm
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I think I'll be calling you shortly... I loosened all of the adjustment bolts on all of the mounts - front and back mounts, up/down, left/right adjustment bolts and I can't get the motor and tranny to move in the directions I need it to move. Don't know where and how to put pressure that won't damage anything. I need to move the back end down and to the left.
Matt |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 3:38pm
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Up/Down is with the jack screws. There should be a square on top of them to turn. You might have to tap on the mount to get it to seat if you lower it. For side-to-side, I used a prybar between the mount & the block, or wherever I could get a bite. It doesn't take much force, at least mine did not.
Mark it with a pencil before you move it, so you don lose track of where you started from. it is easy to go the wrong direction! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 4:34pm
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call, I dont bite,
did you loosen the pinch bolts for your side to side? a good thing to remember is that there are 4 points the engine and trans rest on, if correct the weight will be divided by 4 and the weight will be dis-apated evenly. you want the engine resting evenly on these mounts. once aligned you want even pressure on the bottem nuts and dont want to tighten the nuts to where it will pull the mount and distort ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 5:21pm
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Eric - here are the pics. I put one of the front mounts, 2 of the rear mounts, and one of my current alignment. I knocked it out a little yesterday while pulling the transmission...
Current Alignment 
Rear Mount 1 
Rear Mount 2 
Front Mount 
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 7:47pm
Matt, Did you take Chris's advice? The pinch clamps for the side to side will rust up pretty solid! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: March-29-2009 at 8:18pm
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Yeah, I loosened them up. I actually spoke to Eric and he walked me through everything. I needed to knock the tapered bolts loose with a dead-blow hammer to get it to move. I had taken the nut off the pinch clamp, but hadn't popped the bolt completely loose.
Everything is back together. I still have a rattle and spoke to Eric about that. I'm going to drop it in the water sometime this week or next weekend and see if it gets any better. He said that it may just be the planetary gear making noise, but there may not be an issue. Thanks again guys for all of the advice and thanks Eric for talking me through things on your day off. |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: April-04-2009 at 7:06pm
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Just a final update... Got everything reassembled, but still had a rattle when I ran it in the driveway. Eric recommended that I check timing and tune it up, which I did.
Replaced spark plugs, wires, adjusted timing at idle, and aligned . Dropped it in today and gave it the first run of the season and to my surprise, it ran amazingly well... rattle was gone. I did learn that I need a new steering cable, because my steering got much tighter over the winter. I unhooked the cable at the rudder and was able to turn the rudder easily, confirming it needed replacement. Ordered a new one from White Lake yesterday. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-04-2009 at 8:07pm
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a side note: when installing a new damper and testing in the drive, do not get shaken, at times you need a load on the prop so the real test is dropping it in the water to load it. they will rattle in the drive, I was so worried i couldnt sleep last night lol, good to hear you got it together and ran it ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |