Old Guy Learning To Ski |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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Home from Winnie early this morning. Landed in MT at 1:30am home in bed at 4;30am. Long day, but a great trip. That lake is beautiful. The water was fantastic. We never got glassy conditions, it was windy all week, but still had a good time.
Brother-in-law's boat a 2006 Yamaha 23' bowrider with twin jet drives. A comfortable boat and fast on the top end. I don't think it has the hole shot of our boat and the wake/roostertail combo was pretty big. He brought some kids trainer skies, short and wide with a cross bar. Got his 8 year old up and deep water starting, 7 year old up, my 6 year old up and a 5 year old up. We gave the new P6 a good workout. Boat owner like it. At the end of the week he couldn't get up on his O'brien and tried it. Got right up and had a good run. He was impressed with how it performed. Other brother-in-law is a husky guy. He's waterskied since he was a kid but now wake boards as he can't get up on the slalom. He got up his second try and had a great run. He loved the P6. I got up on my 11 try our first time out. Video below. This was my first run on a slalom and was pretty wobbly. Note the spray off the front of the ski I was talking about earlier. That improved as I got centered over the ski and better balanced. I had another few runs over the week. Always took 4-5 tries to get up. Didn't really get an opportunity to work on accelerating through the wake. The repeated deep water starts tired out my grip. Wondering if gloves would help? Mrs. Poorhouse was unable to get up. She couldn't hold on long enough. Hoping the better hole shot with our boat will get her up. If not maybe be her glove too? Video of my first slalom. Poorhouse's First Slalom Run Poorhouse Jr's first ride. This was shot with an Iphone and the quality is not as good. Poorhouse Jr's First Ski |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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Nice run in both vids!
I'm not an expert like the other guys, but it does look like you're bent forward at the waist. I've been showing a guy wakeboarding the same thing. Chest proud, hips forward. How fast was the boat going? seemed a little slow for you. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Good Ski gloves will give you 50% more grip and help a lot. My set is 8 years old so I will let others advise you on what is a great glove today.
Thanks for the update it is fun to follow. Get your wife back on two skis, just skiing will make her stronger and she can work up to trying one later. Watched your video, first time out crossing the wakes, nice work! You will improve very fast. Now as far as listening to those snowmobile motors all day I think that would drive me nuts. Give him a ride in your boat he will be a believer in direct drive very soon. |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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Glad to be provide some entertainment. I am getting a lot out of the feedback and pointers.
I'm seeing regular gloves and gloves that hook onto the handle interested in opinions on each. Will keep her going on two. She successfully skied the trainer set that only came to her chest and attempted to ski the Radar and Obrein together. That did not go well. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4238 |
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Definitely agree on the gloves, make a big difference. I held out for years but now realize the advantage they give.
Looks to me like you were being pulled too slow. That ski should plane pretty easily so I'm guessing they were only going 26 mph or so. Try 30 to see if the ski rides cleaner. Great progress! |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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Enjoying this thread and the fact that just a few weeks ago you were saying you wanted to try 2 skis and now you are getting up on one already. Great fun. Too bad about the Mrs not getting up. That boat was probably a bit of a factor. As you said, huge rooster tail and wakes and poor pick up wouldn't help her. Hopefully behind your boat and maybe a run or two on two skis first and she will be there.
As far as the gloves, As others have said, yes absolutely. But don't get those clincher/gripper kind. I don't think you need them and I find them a little bulky and ungainly. I think you will find the plain ones preferable. I personally like the half finger ones, but that is just a preference. |
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3334 |
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I admire your pluck and enthusiasm!
The instability you experienced is due to stance, basically your shoulders were leading your hips. Exacerbated by heavy bias on the rear foot. Naturally after an exerting deepwater start, you are all out of sorts. One must reset With knees bent, roll forward on your ankles and thrust your hips forward and ahead of the shoulders that you now rolled back. Stand heavy on that front foot. I say that because your going to have to exaggerate the forward bias to overcome this. That speed looks inconsistent and a bit slow, you should enjoy a pull behind your boat. Oh, and when you are a bit exerted or conditions less than optimal, don't be ashamed to go out on two skis and enjoy the ride. One needs to spend some hours on 2 to get a 'water sense' that will pay dividends advancing your progress. Some aggressive cutting on 2 skis with good form is never lost time. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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Had a quick outing yesterday morning. Forcast wasn't great, but it didn't look like the bad weather would come in until mid afternoon. Got to the lake and the wind was ripping. Put in anyway and were glad we did. Wind died down after an hour and there were no other boats out. I got my first tow on the Radar behind our boat. It was fantastic! Night and day compared to the Yamaha. I was planing after a 1-2 count instead of 5-6 count behind the Yamaha. Our wake is flatter and softer as well. I improved my posture, focusing on getting my hips forward. Then cutting harder across the wake. To all who said that makes the turns easier you were right on. With extra speed the ski changed direction easily. The first time I did it surprised me. After my turn I had slack in the rope and dramatically slowed down. I never did get it right to come out of the turn and immediately be able to pull hard against the boat and back across. Poorhouse Jr. did a great job spotting my run. He then tried out a wood "U" shaped trainer ski I found on Craigslist. It didn't work at all. I think he had progressed beyond it having been up on the training skies. Unfortunately that soured his mood and Mrs. Poorhouse did not get a ride. I think Mrs. Poorhouse is going to have success on the wider P6 behind our boat. Weather permitting we will be out tomorrow for her Birthday. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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We knew that about the Yamaha, there is a reason for Direct Drive boats! HA.
Skiing is fun with power or not but direct drives are hard to beat. Now that you found speed and the wake does not scare you the next step is timing your turns. You are pulling hard through the wakes, it is time to set up for a turn. As you relax on the pull after the second wake you will automatically be pulled upright and then quickly you will need to lean towards the boat starting your turn. Right at this pivot point stretch your arm towards the rear of the boat and lean into the turn. One arm stretching not two. The second free hand stays by your hip. This one arm stretch gives you about 3 feet of slack which gives you about 1/2 second to initiate your turn with no or little pull from the boat. As your ski comes around and you have now turned and reversed towards the wakes again your one rope holding hand should be coming back towards your hip where it will join your second off side hand which is still waiting at the hip for this timing. This needs to happen before the full power of the boat hits again as you will need a firm two hand grip to handle the boats pull. Doing the same turn with 2 hands will slow down your turn a lot and it will be a larger more rounded turn. The one hand turn is necessary to make a quick turn as you do in the course on short line. Watch some video of good skiing and think about the one hand stretch and how it works to provide that instant of slack to help you turn, it will start to make sense. The first time you do this it will probably shock you how quick the ski comes around. Remember as the ski comes around you need to be leaning away from the boat to get ready for the pull . Glad you are having fun out there. |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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Great description. Will experiment with that next time out.
Weather did not cooperate to get out for Mrs. Poorhouse's birthday today. Will be a week or so until we are both off again. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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Winterized the boat a couple weekends ago. Was out in the shop this weekend getting it parked and the gear stowed. Gave me some time to reflect on the season, which was my first time being on the water for more than a weekend or two.
Hard to articulate how much I enjoyed it. Hard to think there is a better way to spend a day with the family. To wrap up our skiing progress: Poorhouse - Continued to work on improving posture and accelerating across the wake. Never was able to really lean into the turn. All attempts on that front ended in epic wipeouts. Tried to get some video of the wipe outs to share and get some more pointers. A miscommunication with friend who was filming ended up those being deleted and only the glory shots were saved. Mrs. Poorhouse - Did not get up on 1 ski. Gloves helped but we ran out of season before she got it figured out. She never quite got her front/back balance right. Poorhhouse Jr. - Didn't make another ride. Got him in the skies for a shallow water start. Something spooked him and he didn't want to try. No pushing on our end. Skiing is suppose to be fun. I think he will be fired up to try next year. Thanks for all the help, support and pointers this year. Look forward to building on what I learned this year. Will pick this thread back up summer 2017. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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Update to this - Finally some progress to report.
Skiing didn't progress much in 2017. Deep water starts improved so I could consistently get up on the first try. This led to more energy for the run. Cutting wake improved a bit but I couldn't get the feel of a turn. I would either turn with the ski flat or fall over. This year started the same way. I was frustrated. Started watching YouTube videos to visualize what was going on. Found a really helpful video by Jager Engineering. It was an edging drill. You only go a few feet outside the wake, keep the rope taught an turn. It really gave me a feel for initiating turns and how the ski reacts depending on weight back, forward, different pressures, ect. The fun is back! Such a great feeling when the ski cuts in the water. Now I'm combing a harder wake cut with a turn. It's a lot to put together at higher speed. Posture for good cut, initiate turn, carve turn, back to rope pull and good posture to cross wake again. The posts earlier in this thread are now making more sense. Hoping to ski through September here, we'll see what the weather does. Mrs. Poorhouse update - Continued struggles with deep water starts. One breakthrough last month. She popped up on her first attempt. Almost no bubble. Unable to repeat that until last night. We were in the new boat with has a much harder hole shot. Pulled the rope out of her hands. Decided to gently roll the throttle. She popped right out of the water and less than 1/4 throttle. She weighs about 120, I think we've been giving it to much throttle all this time. Better to learn late than never.. Going to try to get some videos now that we have something new going on. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3334 |
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I concur, my ladies need a gentle throttle on dws. less is better
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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DVskier
Senior Member Joined: September-04-2014 Location: Seneca SC Status: Offline Points: 449 |
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The key for driving is make sure skier is ready then apply Progesssive throttle as needed for their skill set. As mentioned less is more. I'm 72 and prefer a medium Progesssive pull up. No problems.
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2863 |
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Yup....nice and slow to get the ladies up. My daughter weighs 120 pounds soaking wet. I use barely 1/4 throttle and she blasts out of the water on a 65" ski.
JQ |
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Progress and fun, that is what this is all about!
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3334 |
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The other day my daughter and I were watching a $80k+ wakeboard boat doing full throttle launches upon smallish novice wakeboarders till they were worn out and fully dejected.
, we both had 'Yakety Sax" benny hll theme playing in our head... me: 'Should we go talk to them?" D: "naw, they'll likely be beligerent" |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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Exactly. Know your audience. I watch plenty of travisties in driving and learning attempts and really want to go and make suggestions or offer tips, But I keep it to myself, realizing, they didnt ask.
On the other hand. One day some people were right out front trying to get a guy up on one ski. the boat didnt have the power for a clean start. I would have offered to pull but didnt, but when their rope broke, I did go out and offer them the use of mine, which they did appreciate. (not something you do on every lake, but keep in mind, its a very small lake and we all know where we all live) Another time I was watching a family try to get a teenager up on one ski behind a tuner. The boat did not have the power to pull him up. I offered. At first, understandably, they were reluctant, they didnt know me. But without too much pressure, I convinced them. Got the guy up on boom then short rope then long rope. They appreciated my input. Kid had a chance to experience getting up and going on one, and another kid in the group, who I think may have been a special needs kid, wanted to try, so we got him up on the boom too. They all had a good time. I like getting out and supporting, especially skiers, but usually I just mind my own business. |
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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Enjoying hearing about Jake's and the Mrs's progress. This has been a fun summer for me, too
My buddy (referenced earlier in this thread) has been progressing, slowly but steadily in his slalom skiing and is now getting tighter turns and quicker cuts across the wake. This year he brought a friend with him who never skied before. He was up quickly on two, is now aggressively cutting back and forth and is now working on dropping a ski (or would be if he hadnt gotten hurt his last time out...second time this summer to pull something. He's 58 so he isnt quite as resilient as a teenager would be. He really didnt do anything wrong, just pushing himself. Hate that he's gotten hurt, but like I said, dont think its anything I or he did wrong.) And me. I am a frustrated 30 year slalom course skier. Never really had access or opportunity (admittedly, that is largely on me) ever since I was a teen. (that 30 years I mentioned is since my mid 30s) If I get on a course once or twice a year, I am lucky. This year has been a better year for me. Historically, on a great day, when all the stars were aligned, I could make a pass at 15/28mph. Never got any practice time to get any better. But this year, between a few outings and some very similar tips from Nate Smith, a guy on my lake better than me, and most recently Gary (91NautghtyQ) my cuts across the wake are much more aggressive ("stacked and leaning") than ever before and I am doing 15/30 with little effort. If only I could have those last 30 years back, I am enjoying the progress and hope to keep chipping away at it. |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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This definitely feels like a life time pursuit you keep working on. Similar to snow skiing. I've done that for over 40 years and am still working on my technique. Keeps it interesting. I'm feeling a similarity in both sports, the feeling of having the ski on edge in a turn. Not sure why it's so fun, but the fun is undeniable.
I was telling my son the other day I haven't had a summer sport I was as excited about as snow skiing until now. I can understand wanting those 30 or 40 years back. Better late than never. Mrs. Poorhouse and I have been discussing her starts. To much throttle has certainly played a part. She also thinks she was forcing her back foot out. Keeping the ski perpendicular to the water instead of keeping her heel by her butt to get on plane. We are both excited to get back out. Were hoping for a few after work sessions this week. Unfortunately the weather is not cooperating. The temps are workable. The rain, not so much. We thought tonight might be the best bet but it is really windy with this front coming in. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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Got out for a few hours Saturday afternoon with some friends.
Their 10 year old leaned to ski with us earlier this summer. He is hooked. He had 3 nice long rides and wore himself out. I had a couple runs. I was focusing on the transition from turn to crossing wake. Getting my upper body turned back toward the boat and posture right. I had a few good transitions and a few where I got yanked forward out of position. Lots of fun. Mrs. Poorhouse unfortunately was not able to get up. Gently rolling onto the throttle each effort. She about had it then got tossed when she was coming out of the bubble. The rest of the attempts were not close. We were discussing last night. She may try a back foot out start next time. Or we may get a deep V handle. I don't know. She has really strong legs and is very athletic. This is frustrating the hell out of her. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4238 |
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Has she tried any different skis? I switched to a larger ski last year, and the only reason was to make it easier to get up. I went from a 67" to the same ski, a few years newer, in a 69". While the 2" doesn't sound like much, when you put the skis side by side and see the square area difference it's pretty huge. In truth I don't ski as well on the larger ski but as I age (57 in a few days) and expand (up to 212 or so) I was finding that getting up for a 2nd or 3rd time was getting to be a challenge. The larger ski made it much, much easier.
So, given she has the strength and athleticism, I might suggest trying a different ski. Maybe she has, I didn't go back and re-read the thread. I doubt a different handle would help. I get up with my foot out of the rear binding, but not sure that one technique is easier than the other, more personal preference and habit. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21130 |
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The 2-feet in method is far and away more difficult than the 1-foot out method can be. (Anyone who says 2-feet in is easier is doing the 1-foot method wrong). Thats where I would start. For slalom beginners, I always put them on a wide body ski to begin with until their starts are consistent.
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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We only have 1 slalom ski a 67" Radar P6.
I bought it thinking it would be good for both of us to start on, then we would buy her something else later on. She's 5'1" 120lb. She said the 2 times she's gotten up it took almost no effort. She just popped up. From my perspective looking in the mirror she looked really balanced those two times. Typically she flounders around. Good info on the 1 foot start. It didn't work for me at all so I don't think she has tried it. edit - More than likely I was doing the 1 foot start wrong. If someone can describe the proper technique (or point me to a description) I would be greatful. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21130 |
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Try to find a 90’s vintage wide body for beginners, that will speed the learning curve considerably. Practicing the slalom start on the boom and 5’ is highly recommended also.
Something like this: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F292711765885 Knee to chest, arms straight... let the boat pull you into your knee and onto your ski. Let the ski plane out, do not try to keep it vertical. Do not stand up (keep chest to knee) until you are planed out and on top of the water. Do everything slowly. None of the lean back, straight leg, fight the boat stuff. |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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This was my second season of slalom skiing. Last year I began with the EZ up rope and that seemed to create a dependence on it. I spent a long frustrating period trying to wean myself off of it and getting the rope pulled out of my hands.
Skiing was progressing but not getting up on one. Two feet in is harder. At Long last: listened to advice and started pushing on front foot, Not being so concerned with being in a ball, relaxing more and finally it’s automatic firs time every time. I taught my son in 4 pulls. Arms straight, chest back, push on the front foot. I am so happy for both of us. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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One addition to the one leg out start.
Tim gave you perfect position technique already for your in the boot foot. For your dragging leg, let it stretch out straight behind you, toes pointed out away from the boat to the rear. As the boat starts to gain speed you can add weight to the dragging leg. This adds support and lift as you come up. Again, as already noted you will pop right up with little resistance. With one foot in the ski it will ride in the perfect position with no help from you. This takes a lot of the fight out of coming up. The dragging leg also gives extra lift helping you come up. Now take your sweet time moving the dragging foot to the ski. Set it gently on top of the rear ski at first, It can be on top of your boot, no issue. Look at the back of the boat for reference all the time. If you look down you will twist and fall. Look at the boat, it will keep you straight and balanced. Once very comfortable lift your foot and slip it into the boot while looking at the boat. Note this only works with open toe rear straps. You can't step into a full rear boot with a heel boot.. |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Awesome explanation for the trailing leg. Use it as an elevator! |
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Poorhouse
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2013 Location: Whitefish, MT Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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This may be the ticket guys.
As previously mentioned I started with a 2 foot start. I learned to put my back foot heel in my butt. For me that puts the ski at really good angle and the start just happens. She says she can't tuck her back foot up that high (or get her knee that high into her chest). I think that is putting the ski perpendicular to the direction of travel. Our rear binding is an open tow strap. Plus she has a lot of experience from her youth dropping a ski. Should be natural for her to move the back foot onto the ski. |
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Sold - 1986 Supra Sunsport Skier
Current - 1996 - MC Prostar 205 I keep doing this wrong. |
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td_in_nc
Senior Member Joined: March-30-2012 Location: Clayton NC Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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I am a fan of the deep v rope. It at least one less thing to think about and it keeps the ski pointed in the right direction. I spoke to April Coble of Coble ski school and she recommend I use the deep v rope. It really helped me get up for the first few times. As someone who skies only a couple times a month it provided me a good starter method.,
After having the feel of getting up I was able to get up without it. It is a cheap tool to at least try, as they are less than 30 on amazon. |
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