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learning to barefoot
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kapla View Drop Down
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nice Steve K! by the end of the video I guess you were exhausted!
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Originally posted by footinforever11 footinforever11 wrote:

Back to the cup vs no cup conversation. A friend and I last night, messing around so that we can have a 4 man back foot line in next years show. Very easy on the stomach and groin :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q5ctfgwffY&feature=youtu.be



Nice clean turns and step-offs. Kick it up a notch now.
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Originally posted by kapla kapla wrote:

so using a double stack pylon or a SFH, will definetely help on the LLBD rigth?

Definitely won't hurt!
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Originally posted by kapla kapla wrote:

so using a double stack pylon or a SFH, will definetely help on the LLBD rigth?


No.
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Originally posted by kapla kapla wrote:

nice Steve K! by the end of the video I guess you were exhausted!


Tired, but more drowned then anything. Plus lots of lightning from the incoming thunderstorm...
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Love those back steps, quite the hop passenger side guy has.
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Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Originally posted by kapla kapla wrote:

so using a double stack pylon or a SFH, will definetely help on the LLBD rigth?


No.

Why not?
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Just like too high of a boom. Arms come up off your butt, get loose, and all around loss of control ensues. There is such a thing as too high of a pull when learning. Your mileage may vary but I've seen it happen.
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I would use the high pole to teach it.
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I do use a high pole to teach, just not a "super" high pole/pull.
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SFH/double high pole would still have a shallower angle at 70'+ than a 5' off a moderately high boom, no? High boom is great for teaching the back deep (Seipel had it waaaay up there for us) so Im curious why you wouldnt want to use the (super) high attachment point when first learning the LLBD. Seems like that would be slightly easier than the normal fly high + short rope (70') when first learning. Does something else change with the longer rope and higher pull?
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Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Arms come up off your butt, get loose, and all around loss of control ensues.


If you can keep your arms down great, but that's just one more thing to think about and do. It also starts pulling you off the water to the point where you can't keep enough weight on your own feet and you get stuck chicken winged skimming along on your big toes. Seen it and done it myself.

I just think there's a sweet spot and a crazy high boom and super fly is above it. I also don't like the idea of being spoiled with such high pull points. Keep in mind I'm talking about the learning stage.
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I will take the high pull (SFH or otherwise) for all barefooting. Does it make it easier? I would not say "easier." I would say it is more "forgiving" than a lower pull. That is, you are not punished as quickly for mistakes. BTW, bouncing is not a function of the pull height. Bouncing is an action-reaction sequence that all newbies go through whether on the front or back start.
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Originally posted by LakeBoy LakeBoy wrote:

BTW, bouncing is not a function of the pull height.

Sure it is. Technique first but you cannot ignore the [upwards] force. I realize I'm being technical but it is simply undeniable.

Once you learn to go with the pull instead of against its obviously easier. Sounds like Andy is coming around to the 17.4%
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Originally posted by LakeBoy LakeBoy wrote:

Bouncing is an action-reaction sequence that all newbies go through whether on the front or back start.


I thought bouncing in plane out stage of LLBD, was more related to too much speed (or the obvious waves)??? Not sure being pulled, stiff as a board, through the water, in a back deep, that their is much action-reaction that I feel like I am able to control...
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I'm not talking about the driving Steve.
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Technique WAY first by a huge margin. Bouncing is caused by not rolling your shoulders down and staying stiff in the middle. The difference in angle between a 7 foot pole and a 14 foot pole is 5 degrees.   I could do the vector analysis and show you how minimal the upward pull difference is with that minimal difference of angle, but I am sure the physics would not convince you. Barefooting is mental. I you believe something to be true, it usually is.
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Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

I'm not talking about the driving Steve.


Exactly, I have been blessed with excellent driving (Kevin and my neighbor)for all my LLBD attempts. Am I just incredibly lucky that I have always had good form (I doubt it), I can only think of two occasions where I have had bounce and both times, my drivers immediately took responsibility. So I question the action-reaction theory on Backs. Fronts Deeps I completely agree, bounce starts if you get too far on your back.

I can make no comment on the SFH for LLBD's because I have never had the opportunity to try. Nor have I ever tried off the standard pull point, so I have no reference for that either.

Okay just going to put this all out of my head and going to continue to concentrate on the patience part of it all...
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There is no such thing as being spoiled by a high pull...this thinking will only limit your progress
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Not too long ago it was thought that you could not learn a back deep before you knew how to ski backwards but today it is the norm to learn to ski backwards by doing a BD
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So you're admitting there is a pull difference and then telling me if I believe it it's true.
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Originally posted by LakeBoy LakeBoy wrote:

Bouncing is caused by not rolling your shoulders down and staying stiff in the middle..

What I'm trying to say is too high of a pull can get you out of position. You guys are all missing my point.
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OK you win. I confess under oath. I admit it.
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Didn't we go all through this once before....
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Originally posted by LakeBoy LakeBoy wrote:

the vector analysis and show you how minimal the upward pull difference is with that minimal difference of angle, but I am sure the physics would not convince you.

Um where were you when I already did this? Also, "minimal" is a rather subjective term and I'm not trying to convince you what is minimal and what isn't but rather the fact it's there, which you already seem to believe. We are going in circles.
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Win? No.
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Anyone who would attempt to ski backwards on thier barefeet must have gotten slipped some crazy pills somewhere along the way, might as well confirm it by putting one of them super high contraptions on your boat.
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Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

Anyone who would attempt to ski backwards on thier barefeet must have gotten slipped some crazy pills somewhere along the way, .


Now that right there is a point you can't arge, HA!
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Andy, play around with your new back step off ski yet?
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Nope I did ride my wood cg trick skis and after falling on my face a few times I pulled off some 180s and 360s. I dont like to have to go back and pick up a ski so I prefer footing without skis...have them mainly for decorations.
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