learning to barefoot |
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GottaSki ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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WHAT? Its been 10 minutes, No wide stance jokes?
I see a lot of locked knees. I'm not sure what's textbook, but softer knees seem easier for me to pull the legs more together, and make the crunch to standing. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Why spread your thighs only to bend your knees to get your heels back? I go straight legs. If you've to a good glide with your feet I guess it doesn't matter.
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LakeBoy ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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I dig the narrow stance comment. Definitely easier to get the leverage and the feet get a better bite. Not sure the narrow stance and the crotch/cup issue are related. When you plane out your feet are close. The plane out is where I like the cup there. Also your hips are not off the water on a plane out. That would mean you are bent at the waist on a plane out, so again, not relevant.
Back to the narrow plant. I found myself stabbing on a narrow plant because my feet don't turn outward and slide as well on a narrow plant. Once I get some boat speed, and I am sliding, I narrow the feet and turn the feet down. That may not be textbook, but it works for me. Agreed it is very hard to get of the water on a wide stance, although I do it from time to time. |
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Got Foot?
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footinforever11 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: April-12-2013 Location: Three Lakes Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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I haven't really been following this thread, but the LLBD is probably the one trick I learned quickly and rarely if ever miss, and only then it is with a rookie show ski driver.
Besides the obvious differences between SL and LL, the one for me is butt lift. I still can't get up with a full grip on the LL. I learned low pylon with a two finger grip to allow my butt to rise between my arms. Now I use a 3 finger grip exclusively on LLBD's. I then switch grip to full once I am up. This change has helped a lot of beginners as the long line start needs a lot more hinging versus the full fisted start that is much easier on the 5ft. Another thing that helped me was once I was reasonably consistent on the 5ft. I would only try LL starts until I couldn't stand it, then one 5 ft to get the feeling again; then back to LL. If you ski too much on the 5ft, the transition is brutal. If you don't have a high pylon I highly suggest the investment. It makes the backdeep much easier compared to low pylon or worse yet water level eye hook starts are not recommended lol. Best of Luck, and I hope the 2 or 3 finger start helps someone. ps. After pulling Andy Sable on a LLBD Naked back in the day, I would say cups are much more uncomfortable to use unless you aren't getting an early plant and good butt lift. IE, the ride your thighs and jam your feet in at speed start. |
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LakeBoy ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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Also with bent knees you lose leverage when you start to ski off the plant. I put the bend in the knee as I am starting to ski. The head is down, the feet are coming together, then I put some bend in the knees, and wait for my final speed, and bring my head up.
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Got Foot?
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Roy, is "plane out" just ~15mph? No acceleration.
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skutsch ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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This is EXACTLY how I was feeling in last weeks attempts. On SL, I was taught go wide and then start pulling them in and then turn them down for the power. I am going to stick with the Narrow transition and spend the extra time in the plane out, thinking the mantra toes out - ankles down, toes out - ankles down... We'll see how it goes. Time to charge the camera... |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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I'm sitting here at my desk and I feel like I can point my feet outwards the same no matter what width my legs are. I think with a wider stance you're really just riding your legs more than just your feet/ankle on a narrow plant.
This is all very good discussion BTW! I'm learning a lot. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21138 |
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Well sht Eddie, that sounds familiar! As HW was telling me to get narrower, it felt like my heels were going to touch... but in reality I was still way wide... probably too wide. But, the minimal adjustment made a world of difference in being able to lift myself off the water. Going "straight down" didnt quite work for me- I felt like Steve looked in his video. I think planting as narrow as possible while still achieving a good glide in the ankles is key... and then fighting to stay narrow as the speed starts to come up (like HW and Eddie said). Its really easy to get pulled wider- at least that is one of the things I am currently struggling with. |
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skutsch ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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HW, I think as your legs go wider, your toes also tend to turn out. There is probably some medical linkage here, I could ask my wife about the body mechanics but she is at work...
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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I really like the 2 fingers technique. I'm going to implement that across the board on starts. To me that really boils down to - if you fight the boat, you will lose. This ensures you can't or won't.
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Oh, I see what you're getting at Steve. If I did the splits the bottoms is my feet would be parallel to the boat! I guess you really just need to take as much width as necessary.
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fanofccfan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1744 |
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+1^^^^^^^ ![]() ![]() To each his own though. |
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GlassSeeker ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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There are two basic types of BD. Quick plant with little plane.
Late plant lots of plane. The feet are not on the water during plane. I do both but prefer the quick plant because it's a little less brutal See YouTube sacfooter Jerry Diablo 2 ....Jerry planes and then plants at 25 |
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This is the life
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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It goes without saying the better you are the quicker you want and are able to be on the water than in it.
He's definitely riding the cup! No thank you... |
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behindpropeller ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
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Hmmm
Never was a fan of dragging my face in the water. Back steps are the way to go. Learning how to ride the ski backwards is tougher than actually stepping off. |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Me neither Tim but I've seen many of these guys' faces and they don't have anything to lose! Steps are way cooler but retrieving your *************** is always a nuisance. |
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behindpropeller ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
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Retrieval is the problem...
The biggest issue I had when I was trying to learn was getting a good driver as well as coach to tell you what exactly I was doing wrong. |
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LakeBoy ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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When I say plane or plane out I refer to everything you do from when you tell the driver to go and when your feet first touch the water. Plant is every thing from when your feet first touch the water until your chin/chest come off the water, that is, the end of the 3-point. Ski is when you are entirely on 2-feet. Plane-plant-ski. Plane 0 MPH to 12/15MPH; Plant 12/15 MPH to 25/30; Ski 25/30 to 38/40 MPH. All approximate and entirely at the discretion of the skier. |
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Got Foot?
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skutsch ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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So in competition, when they say; "slow, slow, 41" this is what they are referring to? |
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LakeBoy ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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Never competed, but I hear "medium-medium-fast to 41" or "slow, medium fast to 43". yes, it roughly parallels the plane-plant-ski, but the slow, medium, refers to acceleration rather speed.
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Got Foot?
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GlassSeeker ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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I like fast fast fast...there are 5 in the boat so it will be tempered pretty well.
It's out of the hole, over the rollers, and up to speed called |
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This is the life
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LakeBoy ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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In 5+ years of skiing with Andy I have never seen him miss a back deep. Slow pull, fast pull, crazy pull. I remember Andy said learn to ski it all. Never be dependent on your driver. That;s why my wife's driving has made me a better skier!
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Got Foot?
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GlassSeeker ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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Line step position backdeep I go slow slow to 32...medium high boom lotsa fun...don't think I can do it LL
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This is the life
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GlassSeeker ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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What about longline tumbleturns? The TT might be the biggest crowd pleaser of all
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This is the life
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skutsch ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Maybe only outdone by the front flip. To the crowd the TT looks really tough, the flip does too (definitely at opposite ends of the easy to difficult scale). Perhaps the front to back or rather 360 or 720 might also be up there as a crowd pleaser, but again it just looks like your turning around. Crowds have NO idea...
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footinforever11 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: April-12-2013 Location: Three Lakes Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Back to the cup vs no cup conversation. A friend and I last night, messing around so that we can have a 4 man back foot line in next years show. Very easy on the stomach and groin :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q5ctfgwffY&feature=youtu.be |
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skutsch ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Got out with Hollywood and Johnny last night. Conditions were not the best, we had a lot of boat traffic and then thunderstorms. Probably doesn't look much different from last week, but personally I feel a lot more comfortable and feel like I am making progress. Hollywood decided to focus on just riding the 3 point, and that was a good call, getting much more comfortable doing just that. With smooth water or a little more time I think I'll get it. Running commentary/self evaluation in the actual video.
So thankful for all the patience from Hollywood and Johnny. Thanks Guys! |
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Swatkinz ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December-03-2003 Location: Lexington, SC Status: Offline Points: 1307 |
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I admire your stick to it ive ness
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Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
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kapla ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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so using a double stack pylon or a SFH, will definetely help on the LLBD rigth?
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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